Author Topic: Couple of questions- Ketosis/ fasting  (Read 1497 times)

Offline Horsewoman

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 55
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
    • Email
Couple of questions- Ketosis/ fasting
« on: August 25, 2010, 01:50:00 PM »
Hi, I am 12 days in now and basically back to feeling the same as I was before I started (on a wholefoods diet with limited wholegrains and dairy). One of the main reasons I am doing this is because I find it difficult to keep my blood sugar steady and my body seems to have become dependent on regular large meals with protein, veg and a wholegrain. Now I am the same but without the grain.

I want to get my body to learn to cope without needing more food every time the previous meal gets used up/ stored. I am thinking a period in ketosis is needed? How much do I need to cut my carbs to do that? If I just stop fruit and keep eating meat/ fish/ eggs and veggies will that do it? I eat about half a plate of veggies and half a plate of meat, or maybe a bit more towards the meat.

My other question is- I also want to start fasting every now and then for 24hrs-ish at a time. How long should I wait before starting that or would it be good to start now?

I am aware my body has been through a lot the last few years with a nasty gluten-related illness whilst bearing 2 babies and 6 yrs of nursing them, I don't want to be too hard on it and end up feeling worse, but I want to push past this hurdle of needing to eat so much so frequently.

Foodwise I'm not 100% paleo, but I am totally grain, tuber and legume free and dairy free except a bit of goats butter every now and then.

Offline gnujoshua

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 505
  • Karma: 25
    • View Profile
Re: Couple of questions- Ketosis/ fasting
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2010, 02:35:37 PM »
Under 50g of carbohydrate daily will put you into ketosis after a week. Staying under 100g of carbohydrate after that will ensure you stay there.

Extra fat will keep you sated, and after the first few days of "ketone crash" are over, adequate protein will keep your brain happy.
Diets fail because society as a whole believes body image is more important than health. The problem is that obesity is simply one of many symptoms of an illness, not the illness itself.

And I'm being cured.

Offline phrakture

  • Global Moderator
  • General
  • ****
  • Posts: 1275
  • Karma: 64
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Couple of questions- Ketosis/ fasting
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2010, 04:03:29 PM »
Regular fasting is RARELY done for 24 hours. You don't want to do that. You still want to eat at least once a day. Typical fasting cycles are reported in a (time fasting)/(time eating) manner: 20/4 and 19/5 are pretty regular for people who do regular IF (ala Eat-Stop-Eat). If you do this, start counting AFTER you eat dinner. It's much easier to fast for this long if you're asleep during a lot of it.

I personally used to do 19/5 fasts 6 days a week. It did work, and I felt great. Now-a-days I'm doing things similar to the leangains style of fasting - 16/8 daily fasts. This really just means no breakfast, when you think about it.

EDIT: fasting is also a good way to kickstart ketosis. Just fast for 19 hours, and eat a big meal of only meat.



Offline Stabby

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Couple of questions- Ketosis/ fasting
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2010, 04:46:29 PM »
I agree that more fat is needed. If you can get grassfed beef tallow that is the bomb. Use it on top of vegetables and cook in it, it's awesome. Coconut milk is good too. Avocado and olive oil are good as well. Fish oil can also pack some calories. Butter may or may not be a good thing. On the one hand it has a nearly perfect fatty acid profile, on the other hand it has some dairy hormones so I can't say for sure.

 Basically just eat more fat if you are going to be in ketosis or else you won't feel as good. Here is a study that determined that for a 0 carb diet 75% fat and 25% protein was optimal for energy. You're eating like the Inuit, although some nutrient dense green are definitely a good thing. http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/2

Offline Eric

  • President
  • Administrator
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 623
  • Karma: 235
    • View Profile
    • CAVEMANFORUM
Re: Couple of questions- Ketosis/ fasting
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2010, 05:20:51 PM »
Keep your fasts to 16 hours or less.

And stop trying so hard.  Increased stress/overwork/higher cortisol levels won't be helping anybody.

Offline paleo seb

  • Private
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Couple of questions- Ketosis/ fasting
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2010, 07:55:25 PM »
I think it's much easier to fast after your body is used to ketosis and really fat adapted. You won't get the kind of sick-hunger when your body is used to be fueled by fat. You'll easy go for 16 hours without food without feeling week or thinking about food every minute.

You're in ketosis at around 50g of carbs per day or less. Eating only meat, fat and some veggies without any fruits should be a sure way to get into it. You can buy ketostix and your drugstore and check your urine to know if you're in ketonuria (ketone bodies in your urine).

Like others said, go slow, make sure you sleep enough and feel good otherwise before fasting.

Offline Horsewoman

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 55
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Couple of questions- Ketosis/ fasting
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2010, 03:42:59 AM »
Thanks, thats really helpful. I have fasted before for 24 hrs, I ate breakfast and then went through to breakfast the next day, and felt fine. That was when I started to think that my food was doing something to me that was triggering the feelings of certain death if I didn't get crabs and protein every 4 hrs or so! But I am happy to wait on that one or do it for shorter times. What about something like just skipping snacks and lunch and then eating dinner? I just have an instinct that my body needs a bit of a push to get it to learn it can function without eating every 3-4 hrs.

There is a "posh" butchers in town so I am going to go there and see if they have grassfed tallow. I think the goat butter is staying for now, it is making this WOE a lot easier for me, so I think it's worth it for the time being.

Offline Horsewoman

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 55
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Couple of questions- Ketosis/ fasting
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2010, 08:33:42 AM »
Thanks again for this. I am thinking of getting some grassfed cow butter and making ghee as a step forward from the goat butter (not grassfed I suspect, as I know goats in the UK are mainly kept indoors and fed on pellets and hay- we stayed on a dairy goat farm a couple of weeks ago!).

I was reminded by a response to my food journal that historically fruit hasn't agreed that well with me. When I was on my wholegrain diet I found I did better without fruit, it is faster sugar for me than wholegrains (thats why I have been only eating it with meals- fruit on its own would mean a crash half an hour later). I suspect I am better off without it.

Offline Eric

  • President
  • Administrator
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 623
  • Karma: 235
    • View Profile
    • CAVEMANFORUM
Re: Couple of questions- Ketosis/ fasting
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2010, 05:36:57 PM »
That was when I started to think that my food was doing something to me that was triggering the feelings of certain death if I didn't get crabs and protein every 4 hrs or so!

This typo cracked me up!

Offline Horsewoman

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 55
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Couple of questions- Ketosis/ fasting
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2010, 03:15:55 AM »
That was when I started to think that my food was doing something to me that was triggering the feelings of certain death if I didn't get crabs and protein every 4 hrs or so!

This typo cracked me up!

Ha ha, well spotted!!

CAVEMANforum - The most popular Paleo diet and caveman exercise discussion site

Re: Couple of questions- Ketosis/ fasting
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2010, 03:15:55 AM »