Author Topic: Ketosis question ?  (Read 3959 times)

Offline Dave613

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Ketosis question ?
« on: May 14, 2012, 11:23:33 AM »
Being new to this paleo way, I am now on day 8 and have done a fair bit of reading re: Ketosis.

In the beginning I must admit being a little worried about Ketosis and its affects..especially since I am a vigorous Moutain biker.
Usually ride 5 - 6 times a week.

My question is do many of you plan to stay in a Ketosis state ? Or is it a bit of mix when you get your ideal weight ?
Most of the internet links I have read support what is said on here re: Ketosis and its benefits..But I am still a little unclear of how long I should be aiming for with any repercussions if any ?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers

Dave

Offline C C G

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Re: Ketosis question ?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2012, 12:07:01 PM »
I usually am near ketosis or in 'light' ketosis.  I when I was VLC (20g a day, 5'1'' female, not very active) I was thirsty *all the time* and literally drank fluids constantly.

Ketosis isn't dangerous, it's the natural fasting state for the body.  How 'deep' ketosis you go, and for how long, this depends person to person.  Some people are VLC for life and spend the entire time in heavy ketosis and their bodies are just fine with it.  Some people are better with more carbs.

My mountain-biking paleo friend swears by coconut for rides.  He carries packs of creamed coconut (the solid stuff) and eats them like energy bars.  He also eats bananas, fruit, squash etc. when he feels he needs carbs.

It can be quite hard to tell when you're in ketosis, as ketostix aren't accurate.  When I was VLC I was definitely in ketosis and the thirst was a give away.  Now I eat 30-50g of carbs a day, so no real idea if I am ketosis or not.  I estimate that I am slipping in and out of light ketosis throughout the day.  It's not something I really worry about TBH!


Offline Dave613

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Re: Ketosis question ?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2012, 12:58:09 PM »
Much appreciated...I'll have a look around for the dried coconut...Sounds great !!
I just tested and the Ketostix tells me I am in the light to moderate state right now...
So I'll keep going and see where this paleo journey leads.

Cheers

Dave

I usually am near ketosis or in 'light' ketosis.  I when I was VLC (20g a day, 5'1'' female, not very active) I was thirsty *all the time* and literally drank fluids constantly.

Ketosis isn't dangerous, it's the natural fasting state for the body.  How 'deep' ketosis you go, and for how long, this depends person to person.  Some people are VLC for life and spend the entire time in heavy ketosis and their bodies are just fine with it.  Some people are better with more carbs.

My mountain-biking paleo friend swears by coconut for rides.  He carries packs of creamed coconut (the solid stuff) and eats them like energy bars.  He also eats bananas, fruit, squash etc. when he feels he needs carbs.

It can be quite hard to tell when you're in ketosis, as ketostix aren't accurate.  When I was VLC I was definitely in ketosis and the thirst was a give away.  Now I eat 30-50g of carbs a day, so no real idea if I am ketosis or not.  I estimate that I am slipping in and out of light ketosis throughout the day.  It's not something I really worry about TBH!

Offline C C G

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Re: Ketosis question ?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2012, 03:57:12 PM »
Much appreciated...I'll have a look around for the dried coconut...Sounds great !!
I just tested and the Ketostix tells me I am in the light to moderate state right now...

It's called creamed coconut and it comes in a solid block.  Different beast to dried (dessicated coconut)

You can always make a coconut-milk-berry smoothie.

Ketostix aren't very accurate.  They used to show me quite often in light/no ketosis when I knew it was wrong.  I was drinking so much fluids that the ketones in my urine were diluted hence the reading.  Honestly I wouldn't worry about ketosis so much.  Just keep carbs under 50g on unactive days, under 100g on active days.  And it's really hard to get to 100g on paleo unless you eat a fair amount of bananas and other sweet fruits (or sweet potatoes)

Offline blackyak

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Re: Ketosis question ?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2012, 08:43:24 PM »
Do you guys know why doctors get upset by extra ketones? I was in the US last year and they gave me a liver function test because I convinced them that I *had* to drink vodka alot (anthropologist in the former Soviet lands) and take some meds that are processed in the liver. They told me to watch the extra ketones and tell my primary doctor (hah! who has one of those anyways?) but of course didn't give me any other info about ketones.


Offline C C G

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Re: Ketosis question ?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2012, 03:47:41 PM »
I think that being in ketosis is quite 'hard work' for the liver, whatever that means.  I recall reading someone in my investigations into carbs, leptin, and thyroid hormones, that being in ketosis meant that the liver didn't convert t3 to active t3 so well, to the t3 went to t4 instead.  Something to do with the liver being kept 'busy' by ketosis

No idea if any of that is even accurate.  But it is the liver that converts acetyl Co-A to ketone bodies.  Maybe that's why people on low carb get drunk so easily - liver is busy making ketones, so toxins like alcohol get broken down more slowly

The doctors were most likely concerned with alcoholic ketoacidosis - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_ketoacidosis
The production of too much ketone bodies can lead to ketoacidosis, which is dangerous.  Common observed in diabetics and alcoholics

Offline blackyak

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Re: Ketosis question ?
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2012, 07:35:34 PM »
Thanks celticgirl.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-carbohydrate_diet
Guys, this article and links seem to be a good place to read up on ketosis and low-carb. (Haven't read it yet myself though)

Offline blackyak

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Re: Ketosis question ?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2012, 01:47:09 AM »
well, I just drank alot for the first time after trying to cut out  most of my grains and added sugars... and I am having the weirdest hangover ever. Generally I don't get hungover hardly at all... just a small headache. The morning after I drank (about 1.5 l of lager type beer and 100-200 mg of vodka) things were going good. I also had tons of energy, more than the usual that I have when I drink vodka, and that usually doesn't stay on until the next morning. I ate some eggs and an orange and went outside to do some stuff. Around 2 pm I got really nauseous and felt feverish-- really cold. Took a 2 hour nap and felt fine. Since then (last 24 hours or so) I've been up and down with the nausea but feeling not together mentally. (Including depression/anxiety)

I'm trying to understand the relations between ketosis and alcohol, but there's alot of different info out there. One thing I seem to be having though is eating carbs (like the orange, or a wafer cookie like I had after feeling awesome from my meaty fatty lunch soup) brings on the nausea, which also seems to be related to increased stomach acid, so don't know how that's related to my liver. Generally have been having trouble getting rehydrated though and I can definitely see how that would be liver related.

Offline Il Capo

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Re: Ketosis question ?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2012, 11:34:03 AM »
... after trying to cut out  most of my grains and added sugars... The morning after I drank (about 1.5 l of lager type beer...

In between your cutting "most" but not all, and drinking 1.5l of lager beer (50 - 75g of carbs in the beer alone), I don't think you were in ketosis. Low carb, yes, but not very low.

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Ketosis question ?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2012, 08:55:33 PM »
Blackyak, I agree with Il Capo that you are likely not in ketosis.  I suspect the orange or other carbohydrate is causing an insulin spike that in turn causes a blood sugar crash.

I find it's better to eat the carb snacks along with some fat.

Offline Jean

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Re: Ketosis question ?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2012, 11:24:39 PM »
Feeling nauseous and feverish sounds like low blood sugar to me. (I used to get terrible blood sugar crashes pre-paleo.) Try to focus on eating more protein and healthy fat to keep your blood sugar more stable.

Offline blackyak

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Re: Ketosis question ?
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2012, 12:07:06 AM »
thanks guys. I meant that I was in ketosis *before* the tons of beer!

I'm doing good today-- got some food from one of my Mongolian moms full of meat, raw milk, and root veggies, then just whipped out my chunk of frozen grass fed meat and made a nice soup. Lots of fat and protein last night and today.