Author Topic: Super High Fat Diet  (Read 4370 times)

eggmil

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Super High Fat Diet
« on: May 05, 2010, 06:48:56 AM »
I have done a lot of research, through studies and reading textbooks and have found the following.

A diet super high in fat, ie 85% or more of calories will result in the lowest level of insulin and highest level of glucagon thus burning more body fat.

Fat storage and release is controlled by hormones. It doesn't matter how many calories of fat you eat as it won't have an affect on insulin and glucagon levels. ie regardless of how much fat u have in your stomach, body fat will still be broken down as long as you have the correct hormonal balance.

Also a diet high in fat will make your body produce more fat digesting enzymes, the more of these enzymes in your body the better you can also burn body fat.

The diets designed by most authors of paleo type diets have got it all wrong. There is too great an emphasis on lean meat and plant food. In the animal kingdom it is all about survival. Thus animals will eat the highest energy food possible and try to minimize the work needed to get that food. Most authors suggest eating A LOT of vegetables. On a 2500 calorie diet one would have to harvest and eat 8 kilograms of broccoli or similar vegetables. That would take a lot of effort. Conversely one could sprint after a boar for a few minutes and get that 2500 calories from about 700 grams of fatty meat.

Just picture a lion or tiger. They chase their food for only a moment. When they catch it they eat the organs first. The organs are highest in fat thus highest in energy. They would then sit under a tree for the rest of the day to conserve energy.

Anyone who's watched the tv shows man vs wild or survivor would notice that the hosts of the shows barely ever find suitable plant food. Almost all their calories come from meat.

Protein and plant matter also take a lot of energy to digest, much much more than fat does. Therefore fat is least taxing on our digestive system. Fat is also the preferred fuel source at rest and low intensity exercise. Which is about 90% of a humans life. Fiber is indigestible, slows the body from absorbing nutrients, is a laxative and puts un-necessary strain on the intestines and is therefore unfit and unhealthy for human consumption.

I am suggesting for perfect health a person should keeps carbs high enough to not go into deep ketosis (although its not particularly harmful) thats about 50 grams a day for most non exercising adults. Protein should be kept as low as possible as long as the body can rebuild and repair itself. usually 1 gram per kg of lean mass. Any excess protein is converted to glucose. Fat should be as high as you need to keep your energy up.  About 250-300 grams.

Fat should be as saturated as possible as saturated it most efficiently used by the body.

You are only at risk of heart disease on a high fat high carb, diet or simply a high carb diet. A super high fat low carb diet will not give you heart disease. I can go more into heart disease, fats and carbs some other day.

Does anyone have any comments about my opinions?

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Super High Fat Diet
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2010, 06:59:46 AM »
In my experience, I can only eat high amounts of fat if the fat is raw.
With cooked fat I get nauseous quickly.
But raw fat has no nausea involved.


Offline Paleo Curmudgeon

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Re: Super High Fat Diet
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2010, 10:02:01 AM »
This appears to be similar to the Homo Optimus Diet or Optimal Diet by Polish doctor Jan Kwasniewski MD.  I haven't tried it but there is a following in Poland, among the Polish community in the U.S. and there is a support group in Australia.  It isn't paleo since cheese and cream are allowed.

Here are lunch and dinner meal suggestions:

 Lunch
15g, F 63g, C 10g, 1 : 4.2 : 0.7, 680 kcal

Two cheese pancakes (100g) with butter (30g) and a spoonful of unsweetened fruit jelly. Wash down with a glass of sweet cream (120g).

Dinner
P 28g, F 83g, C 22g, 1 . 3 : 0.8, 965 kcal

Take a 10 mm thick pork cutlet (150g), pound it slightly to soften it, dip it in a beaten egg and then cover with breadcrumbs. Coat it once more. Melt two tablespoons of lard on a frying pan and then fry the chop. Eat with a spoonful of potatoes (100g) mashed in with the fat. Garnish with a dill pickle
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 10:05:51 AM by Paleo Dude »

eggmil

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Re: Super High Fat Diet
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2010, 03:42:06 PM »
I am a Polish Australian, my father introduced me to Homo Optimus and that is the diet i follow. Ive just been trying to justify it in a paleolithic sense. Probably should have mentioned that in my original post.

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Super High Fat Diet
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2010, 08:46:59 PM »
I don't think you'll find many people on this forum arguing that people should stick to lean meat.

I think if I went to 85% of calories from fat, though, I'd have trouble getting enough protein.  I tend to run maybe 60-70% of calories from fat.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 08:50:17 PM by Warren Dew »


eggmil

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Re: Super High Fat Diet
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2010, 09:15:14 PM »
I don't think you'll find many people on this forum arguing that people should stick to lean meat.

I think if I went to 85% of calories from fat, though, I'd have trouble getting enough protein.  I tend to run maybe 60-70% of calories from fat.

Enough protein? how much is enough protein? Enough would be to repair your muscle tissue and organs. If you eat protein of high biological value such as that of egg yolks you don't need much. Any more than 150 grams a day will be converted to glucose. If any large proportion of the protein you eat is being converted into glucose your body is not operating at 100% efficiency and health will not be maximized.

Offline Il Capo

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Re: Super High Fat Diet
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2010, 09:32:59 PM »
Any more than 150 grams a day will be converted to glucose.

Can you provide sources for the above?

Several sources suggest around 1g of protein / lb of lean body mass, while others suggest more if trying to grow muscle (upto 2g / lb of LBM for teens or people under heavy training). So a person with about 150lbs of LBM could need a minimum of 150g of protein/day and upto 300g of protein/day depending on training.

But let's use your example. Let's say someone weighs 165lbs @ 10% body fat. This person would need (or could tolerate, according to what you wrote) ~ 150g protein/day. Those are 450 cals/day. To make fat 85% of cals, this person would need to eat 3,000 cals/day. Feasible, but not certain.

Offline George

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Re: Super High Fat Diet
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2010, 11:44:17 PM »
I have done a lot of research, through studies and reading textbooks and have found the following.
...
Does anyone have any comments about my opinions?

Hi Eggmil, thanks for bringing this up. Fat, and particularly saturated fat, is an interesting question and I think we're further from a convincing answer than we think, even in this community.

There are a few specific points in your post that I would dispute on a biological level, but I think the big fundamental misconception is that food that animals prefer is the same as food that is good for them. I think you would disagree with that argument wholeheartedly if we were talking about sugar, so you can't use the same argument to support eating lots of fat.

The core premise of paleo/primal/evolutionary eating is that the food that is good for you is the food that was actually eaten by your ancestors. I think no-one is in any doubt that a caveman faced with a carcass of a modern grain-fed ruminant would eat as much fat as he could before resting under a tree and then doing it again. But if he did it every day for years, would it be any more good for him than if he were presented instead with a fully stocked bakery?

We can argue the science back and forth, but the best conclusion we could possibly come to would be based on the available nutrition research, which is obviously incomplete. So we have to go further and try to understand what our ancestors evolved to eat. And the best evidence we have suggests that they ate animals that were a lot leaner and lower in saturated fat than the ones we have available to eat today.

The problem with questions like this is that people tend to polarise around extreme positions when not enough evidence is available. There are perfectly well-meaning and well-informed scientists who say saturated fat is a killer and equally qualified ones who say it isn't at all. My opinion is that the answer  will be "it's more complicated than that". Personally I'm most aligned with Cordain, who has some cracking credentials, so I'll leave my last word to him: http://www.thepaleodiet.com/faqs/#Fats.

Best wishes

G

eggmil

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Re: Super High Fat Diet
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2010, 11:50:39 PM »
A polish nutritionist Dr Kwasniewski was drafted into the polish military. He was given the role of feeding the soldiers. Over a few years of playing around with food ratios he found that for optimal health one should eat about .7 grams of protein per kg of lean body weight and keep macro nutrient ratios as, 1 gram protein : 2.5-3.5 grams fat : .5-.8 grams of carbs. He later opened a clinic where he cured people of various diseases just by feeding them in these ratios. He is the author of Optimal Nutrition and Homo Optimus. I follow his diet because it has been tested and proven to be the best for many years.

If you google "how much protein should i eat" or "how much protein should i eat to gain muscle" you will find thousands of different studies articles and opinions. How much protein I've said to eat is for optimal health, not to gain muscle. For optimal health a person should not be too muscular.

I used to eat 250+ grams of protein a day when I was trying to gain muscle. I over shot my protein consumption to be absolutely sure I would grow as fast as possible. I did that along with intense weight training for 2 years. I did that because I'm a young guy and want to look good.

eggmil

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Re: Super High Fat Diet
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2010, 12:07:39 AM »

So we have to go further and try to understand what our ancestors evolved to eat. And the best evidence we have suggests that they ate animals that were a lot leaner and lower in saturated fat than the ones we have available to eat today.


George,

I believe saturated fat to be the healthiest fat since it requires the least processing by the liver to be made available for a human to utilize. The human body makes its own saturated fat and cholesterol. In a way Cordain proposes that the human body would poison itself.

Animals may have been leaner but back then humans would eat the entire carcass. That includes brain, organs and bone marrow which are all very high in fat. Also if you look at the data, the western world has been steadily reducing its saturated fat intake over the years even though cows and pigs are fatter than ever before.

Sugar is also not totally bad for us. In the wild the small amounts that it can be found promote the storage of fat which is great so survival if no food source can be found.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 12:09:42 AM by eggmil »

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Super High Fat Diet
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2010, 09:21:21 PM »
But let's use your example. Let's say someone weighs 165lbs @ 10% body fat. This person would need (or could tolerate, according to what you wrote) ~ 150g protein/day. Those are 450 cals/day. To make fat 85% of cals, this person would need to eat 3,000 cals/day. Feasible, but not certain.

I assume that we're talking about dietary numbers, in which case 150g of protein would be 600kcal/day, for which an 85% fat diet would be 4000 kcal/day.

I actually think 85% fat would be fine for someone who burned 4000kcal/day.  I don't eat anywhere near that much myself, though.

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Super High Fat Diet
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2010, 09:22:55 PM »
I think no-one is in any doubt that a caveman faced with a carcass of a modern grain-fed ruminant would eat as much fat as he could before resting under a tree and then doing it again.

I'm in some doubt.  In my experience, the fat of grain fed animals is not nearly as good tasting as the fat of grass fed animals, so I'm not sure a cave man would eat as much of it.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Super High Fat Diet
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2010, 01:00:18 AM »
I'm in some doubt.  In my experience, the fat of grain fed animals is not nearly as good tasting as the fat of grass fed animals, so I'm not sure a cave man would eat as much of it.

You should try RAW FAT and the difference between grass fed and grain fed is NIGHT and DAY!

Raw fat grass fed is absolutely heavenly.

Grain fed raw fat tastes awful!