Author Topic: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?  (Read 2713 times)

Offline robinhoode

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Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« on: December 29, 2009, 12:56:57 PM »
I've been reading up on the paleo diet, and also the Japanese diet, for a few weeks now and I'm thinking I might want to make a switch. Even if I don't remove all the grains, I could at least remove the fatty meats, and eat more vegetables.

I was vegetarian for a few years as a teenager, but I never really took it seriously. I didn't eat meat but also didn't eat that many veggies either, so it was mostly a copout. Nowadays I don't eat anything that doesn't come out of a box and especially if it can't be eaten straight from the microwave.

I'd like to change that but I'd like to make it count, so it will be a slow process. One of the goals for me is to eat fish at least 2 or 3 times a week and start cutting out beans and bread. I've gotten rid of my morning cereal and replaced it with vegetable soup, however it's still just canned soup that includes beans and probably a high sodium level, although I haven't checked.

Now as for the fish, I've always hated fish as a kid. It was typical that when my family went to go out to a fancy restaurant that my mother would always exclude the seafood ones since I would refuse to eat it. I think it was just the horrible smell that set me off, but from what I understand the smell is actually caused by improper storage (i.e. the bacteria growing on it) and not from the fish itself.

So my question is, how can I break this aversion? I want to go with a slow gradual change. I was thinking I could start eating tuna on a semi-regular basis, which would only be temporary. After a month or so I could get used to the taste and incorporate other types of canned fish. After a few more months I might work my way up to eating a healthier variety from a market, and then at some point, say around this time next year I could learn how to cook fish.

Suggestions?

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2009, 01:09:48 PM »
Welcome!

I've been reading up on the paleo diet, and also the Japanese diet, for a few weeks now and I'm thinking I might want to make a switch. Even if I don't remove all the grains, I could at least remove the fatty meats, and eat more vegetables.

You don't have to get rid of the fatty meat - fatty meat was as much a part of the paleolithic diet as fish.  Getting rid of the grains, legumes, and dairy is the key.

As for fish, you can start with some of the more robust fish, like tuna and salmon, as you say.  You can get fresh or frozen tuna and salmon steaks that cook pretty much the same way as beef steaks cook, though it's done a bit faster.

Beef and pork are fine, too, though, as far as the paleo diet goes.  If you want to be particularly strict, you can go for the grass fed beef.

Offline robinhoode

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Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2009, 01:14:43 PM »
Fatty meats are probably okay. As I said, I've only been reading about this for a few weeks. But personally I'd like to switch to mostly fish and sometimes chicken but little if any beef or pork. I haven't done as much reading about this, so I could just be talking out my ass but fish is said by many to be a "brain food" and my current goal is to be as mentally productive as possible. And also, I think the Japanese have it way more on target than us since they have a longer life expectancy than us, with their main meat being fish.

marika

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Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2009, 04:04:20 PM »
If you are wanting the fish for the purposes of omega 3's (which is why they call it "brain food", I think), you can get omega 3's from grassfed meats and pastured eggs. No fish necessary. And then you won't have to worry about the mercury from all that fish either!

And actually grassfed and pastured animal fats are "brain food" too.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091002093757.htm

Quote
A derivative of cholesterol is necessary for the formation of brain cells, according to a study from the Swedish medical university Karolinska Institutet.


Offline robinhoode

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Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2009, 04:27:57 PM »
That's interesting.. I'll keep that in mind. I did some searching to find out exactly how much omega-3's are contained in fish vs. grass fed beef. I found this link: (http://www.tufts.edu/med/nutrition-infection/hiv/health_omega3.html) which includes fish, nuts and seeds, and greens but not any other meats. I'm curious to know how they compare.

Offline TWS

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Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2009, 06:53:01 PM »
Fatty meats are probably okay. As I said, I've only been reading about this for a few weeks. But personally I'd like to switch to mostly fish and sometimes chicken but little if any beef or pork. I haven't done as much reading about this, so I could just be talking out my ass but fish is said by many to be a "brain food" and my current goal is to be as mentally productive as possible. And also, I think the Japanese have it way more on target than us since they have a longer life expectancy than us, with their main meat being fish.

Eat more fat, not less.  I've found that leaner proteins no longer appeal to my tastes.  I eat very little fish, almost no fowl.  I do eat scallops occasionally, to which I add some melted butter.  As you move from your current diet towards one heavier in saturated fats, you'll find your preferences in 'proteins' will change.

As to the Japanese and life expectancy, I'm going to venture it's more about a traditional diet of no processed foods and calorie restriction that accounts for longevity rather than a specific dietary component. 

TWS

Offline JuanTaco

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Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2010, 06:17:25 PM »
Why the hell would you remove fatty meats?

Offline robinhoode

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Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2010, 06:07:56 PM »
It's not so much removing fatty meats but trying to find meats that are better for cognitive performance.

Offline samjohn

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Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2010, 06:38:42 PM »
It's not so much removing fatty meats but trying to find meats that are better for cognitive performance.

I was under the impression that certain oils in fish and meat were necessary for proper brain development. This is different to eating fish for a week and expecting your brain to work better the following week.
The answer to your question is 'eat more fat'.

Stop counting calories. If you are eating Paleo, there is usually no need.

If you are having weight loss issues, it'd be a good idea to start posting a detailed food journal, then everyone can help.

'Anecdotal Evidence' is an oxymoron.

Offline robinhoode

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Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2010, 05:39:37 AM »
It's not so much removing fatty meats but trying to find meats that are better for cognitive performance.

I was under the impression that certain oils in fish and meat were necessary for proper brain development. This is different to eating fish for a week and expecting your brain to work better the following week.

Well, my main goals are cognitive performance, with just plain staying healthy a close second. I am a big follower of imminst.org. And many, if not almost all of them, take fish oil supplements on a regular basis in the ranges of 4g to 20g a day. That's quite a lot! I would think that actually eating lots of fish on a regular basis would help it get absorbed better, since supplements are a modern invention.

Update: Just found this study that links marine fats to lower cancer rates:

Dietary long-chain n-3 fatty acids for the prevention of cancer: a review of potential mechanisms
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/79/6/935

« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 06:08:13 AM by robinhoode »

Offline phrakture

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Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2010, 09:13:35 AM »
So my question is, how can I break this aversion? I want to go with a slow gradual change.

I don't think there's any way around it. You just have to do it. About two years ago, I had a handful of vegetarian friends who said it was "so hard" to be vegetarian. I proved them wrong by going vegan for 30 days (to shut them up). Before this time, I didn't really eat a lot of veggies. Peppers were gross, I hated anything tomato-y, broccoli was terrible, peas were blegh... etc. So I dove into it. It was only 30 days, I could eat gross food for 30 days.

But something happened. I realized that what you "like" is more of a learned behavior than anything else. Day 1 I ate some peas and corn - gross. Day 2 I ate the same thing and put soy sauce on it - it was ok. Day 3 I left off the soy sauce - it was ok. Day 4 it was better than ok. This is just the way these things work. Want to eat fish? Then eat fish. Tough it out for a few days, knowing that it will get better.

Also, sauces are your friend. And don't start with the "fishy" fish, like mackrel. Stick with salmon, maybe tilapia or cod...



Offline samjohn

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Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2010, 02:49:41 PM »
Well, my main goals are cognitive performance, with just plain staying healthy a close second. I am a big follower of imminst.org. And many, if not almost all of them, take fish oil supplements on a regular basis in the ranges of 4g to 20g a day. That's quite a lot! I would think that actually eating lots of fish on a regular basis would help it get absorbed better, since supplements are a modern invention.

Understood, what I am saying is that it may just be a waste of time to limit yourself to fish when there is a good chance it is going to do absolutely nothing for your cognitive performance.

These studies - http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/abstract/71/6/430 and http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/139/12/2329?etoc found no association between cognitive performance and fish oil intake.

Fish is good stuff, but you don't want to limit your intake of quality red meat.
The answer to your question is 'eat more fat'.

Stop counting calories. If you are eating Paleo, there is usually no need.

If you are having weight loss issues, it'd be a good idea to start posting a detailed food journal, then everyone can help.

'Anecdotal Evidence' is an oxymoron.

Offline robinhoode

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Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2010, 03:16:18 PM »
Ya, there was another article on neurology.org that seems to support it..
http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/abstract/62/2/275

But regardless of all that, I think I'm at a forum of mostly red meat eaters, so it seems any questions about fish are going to cause some strange looks.. Thanks anyways, though.

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2010, 03:40:15 PM »
Dietary long-chain n-3 fatty acids for the prevention of cancer: a review of potential mechanisms
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/79/6/935
Omega 3 (n-3) fats do seem to be the main benefit of fish oil.  They seem to be able to help brain function if you start with a deficiency; there's evidence for example that a proper omega 3:6 ratio helps alleviate depression.  However, grass fed and finished beef is also a good source of omega 3s; it's the corn fed feedlot beef that's less satisfactory in this regard.

I eat fish at least once a week.  The fact that most here also eat red meat isn't a prejudice; it's that some of the fish that are highest in omega 3s and lowest in mercury are seasonal, and now is not the best season for them.

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2010, 03:47:16 PM »
I am a big follower of imminst.org.

I always find it interesting how immortality and longevity organizations always ignore caloric restriction, which is a proven mechanism for life extension.  I searched for it on the imminst.org site and only got two hits, both of which were peripheral mentions.

If you want to live a long time, you may want to look into caloric restriction and CRON (calorie restriction with optimal nutrition).


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Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2010, 03:47:16 PM »