Author Topic: Hello everyone :)  (Read 764 times)

Offline MsCurry

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Hello everyone :)
« on: December 03, 2011, 10:16:04 AM »
Hello everyone!

I'm a 23 year old, 215lb lady from the UK. I've just 'transferred' from Atkins phase 2 to the Paleo diet around a week ago, as I decided it would be better for me in the long run. I've been doing Atkins since mid january (with a few months break) and lost 60lbs so far.

Just wanted to know a few things! Firstly, what is the difference between Primal and Paleo? And secondly, are we allowed to use any sort of oil, other than meat juices?

Thank you in advance! And I hope to lose a lot of weight with you all :D

xxx

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Hello everyone :)
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2011, 11:01:17 AM »
Welcome!

Primal is basically paleo lite - it allows various foods that are considered cheats from the paleo standpoint because they would lose you some of the benefits of a paleo diet.

By the most strict interpretation of paleo, the only allowed fats would be the fat on or rendered from meat - for example, grass finished tallow or unhydrogenated lard.  However, as those can be difficult to find, many people fats that are not quite paleo, but still not too bad for us, like grass finished butter, preferably clarified, or olive oil.  Of course, fats that are in paleo foods are fine even if they don't work as cooking oils - egg yolks, for example.

Offline Jean

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Re: Hello everyone :)
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2011, 03:51:32 PM »
Welcome, and congrats on your weight loss! Paleo should enable you to continue losing weight, while being better for your long-term health than Atkins.

For cooking fat, I use drippings saved from roasts, tallow that I render myself from grass-fed beef fat, lard rendered from our own pigs (or unhydrogenated store-bought if I've run out), clarified grass-fed butter or organic coconut oil. For salad dressings I use cold-pressed olive, avocado or macadamia oil. I also use grass-fed butter on its own or with herbs to melt over vegetables, or garlic butter on grilled mushrooms, or to make hollandaise sauce. Only the animal fats are strict paleo, but most of us include some other fats. Personally I think butter from grass-fed cows is a miracle food, great omega6:omega3 ratio and loaded with fat-soluble vitamins and CLA, and nothing else tastes so good! I'd be happier if I could get it raw, though. I have a friend who is moving nearby who is planning on getting a Jersey cow, so hopefully soon ...

The fats you must avoid for good health are soy, corn, canola, sunflower, safflower, grapeseed, rice bran, peanut, flaxseed, "vegetable", vegetable shortening, margarine, and anything hydrogenated or heat/hexane extracted. These all have major problems, either way too much omega-6, or lectins/other antinutrients/toxins, or damaged fats. Most nut oils other than macadamia and walnut are way too high in omega6, too.

Offline celticcavegirl

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Re: Hello everyone :)
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2011, 07:07:36 PM »
Hello, welcome!  Congratulations on your weight loss...here's to the next 60 pounds! I'm in the UK, too.

Things that are included in some loose primal diets that should be avoided
nut flours and "paleo" baked goods
white rice
yams
whey protein

Things that are 'primal' but definitely not paleo
high fat dairy such as double cream, natural yoghurt, butter, high fat cheese
sweet potatoes

Things that are primal and borderline paleo
nightshades

Cooking fats.  Let's break it down, in no particular order

1) beef or lamb tallow
- pros
best o6/o3 ratio, reasonably easy to find grass-fed suet and render yourself.  If not, 'Britannia' brand beef dripping may not be grass fed but it is completely unprocessed.  Stable at high temperatures
- cons
not necessarily the nicest taste/texture

2) ghee
- pros
best o6/o3 ratio if home-rendered from grass fed butter
stable at high temp
tasty
- cons
hormones present in the butter due to milking cows in late stages of pregnancy.  Goats butter may be better

3) lard
- pros
high in mono-unsaturates
good texture and taste for cooking
- cons
very hard to find pig fat from pigs that haven't been fed soy or corn

4) goose or duck fat
- pros
easy to find in the supermarket
good texture and taste
- cons
not great o3/o6 ratio

5) olive oil
- pros
oil, so easy to use
high in mono unsaturates
- cons
not stable at high temp

6) coconut oil
- pros
very stable
pleasant texture
low o6
- cons
lower in trace vitamins than animal fats

Oils for dressings
Olive oil
Avocado oil
macadamia oil
hazelnut oil


I prefer to use lard but have not been able to find any that satisfies my criteria in a while, so am currently using tallow, coconut oil or goats ghee, with olive oil sometimes on veggies but never for cooking.  Tallow is good for some things, like sauté-ing onions and frying meat but on veggies I find it's high melting point leaves an unpleasant coating in the mouth.
Sugar addiction kills more people than all other kinds of drugs combined

If your food needs a prefix, it's not paleo!

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Offline MsCurry

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Re: Hello everyone :)
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2011, 08:07:35 PM »
Welcome!

Primal is basically paleo lite - it allows various foods that are considered cheats from the paleo standpoint because they would lose you some of the benefits of a paleo diet.

By the most strict interpretation of paleo, the only allowed fats would be the fat on or rendered from meat - for example, grass finished tallow or unhydrogenated lard.  However, as those can be difficult to find, many people fats that are not quite paleo, but still not too bad for us, like grass finished butter, preferably clarified, or olive oil.  Of course, fats that are in paleo foods are fine even if they don't work as cooking oils - egg yolks, for example.

Thanks for that, cleared up a bit for me. I'm fine using olive oil for cooking, if needs be. Grass fed butter, however, I don't think you can get that in the UK, if you can it's been hiding from me!

Offline MsCurry

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Re: Hello everyone :)
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2011, 08:09:51 PM »
Welcome, and congrats on your weight loss! Paleo should enable you to continue losing weight, while being better for your long-term health than Atkins.

For cooking fat, I use drippings saved from roasts, tallow that I render myself from grass-fed beef fat, lard rendered from our own pigs (or unhydrogenated store-bought if I've run out), clarified grass-fed butter or organic coconut oil. For salad dressings I use cold-pressed olive, avocado or macadamia oil. I also use grass-fed butter on its own or with herbs to melt over vegetables, or garlic butter on grilled mushrooms, or to make hollandaise sauce. Only the animal fats are strict paleo, but most of us include some other fats. Personally I think butter from grass-fed cows is a miracle food, great omega6:omega3 ratio and loaded with fat-soluble vitamins and CLA, and nothing else tastes so good! I'd be happier if I could get it raw, though. I have a friend who is moving nearby who is planning on getting a Jersey cow, so hopefully soon ...

The fats you must avoid for good health are soy, corn, canola, sunflower, safflower, grapeseed, rice bran, peanut, flaxseed, "vegetable", vegetable shortening, margarine, and anything hydrogenated or heat/hexane extracted. These all have major problems, either way too much omega-6, or lectins/other antinutrients/toxins, or damaged fats. Most nut oils other than macadamia and walnut are way too high in omega6, too.

Thanks for your input. You own your own pigs? Lucky! :D

Those fats I avoid anyway. Is there something wrong with having too much omega-6?

Offline MsCurry

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Re: Hello everyone :)
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2011, 08:14:31 PM »
Hello, welcome!  Congratulations on your weight loss...here's to the next 60 pounds! I'm in the UK, too.

Things that are included in some loose primal diets that should be avoided
nut flours and "paleo" baked goods
white rice
yams
whey protein

Things that are 'primal' but definitely not paleo
high fat dairy such as double cream, natural yoghurt, butter, high fat cheese
sweet potatoes

Things that are primal and borderline paleo
nightshades

Cooking fats.  Let's break it down, in no particular order

1) beef or lamb tallow
- pros
best o6/o3 ratio, reasonably easy to find grass-fed suet and render yourself.  If not, 'Britannia' brand beef dripping may not be grass fed but it is completely unprocessed.  Stable at high temperatures
- cons
not necessarily the nicest taste/texture

2) ghee
- pros
best o6/o3 ratio if home-rendered from grass fed butter
stable at high temp
tasty
- cons
hormones present in the butter due to milking cows in late stages of pregnancy.  Goats butter may be better

3) lard
- pros
high in mono-unsaturates
good texture and taste for cooking
- cons
very hard to find pig fat from pigs that haven't been fed soy or corn

4) goose or duck fat
- pros
easy to find in the supermarket
good texture and taste
- cons
not great o3/o6 ratio

5) olive oil
- pros
oil, so easy to use
high in mono unsaturates
- cons
not stable at high temp

6) coconut oil
- pros
very stable
pleasant texture
low o6
- cons
lower in trace vitamins than animal fats

Oils for dressings
Olive oil
Avocado oil
macadamia oil
hazelnut oil


I prefer to use lard but have not been able to find any that satisfies my criteria in a while, so am currently using tallow, coconut oil or goats ghee, with olive oil sometimes on veggies but never for cooking.  Tallow is good for some things, like sauté-ing onions and frying meat but on veggies I find it's high melting point leaves an unpleasant coating in the mouth.

Hello. Thanks for your input! Nice to have met my first UK person here :D

Having listened to advice on here, I'd say I would fit into the Paleo diet quite nicely. Primal doesn't sit right with me. I hope I will be OK using olive, coconut oil and lard for now, as that's the only kind I can readily get my hands on, at the minute. I will have to look up some information about rendering tallow, as I've never heard of it 'til today.

Offline Jean

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Re: Hello everyone :)
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2011, 09:25:38 PM »
Thanks for your input. You own your own pigs? Lucky! :D

Those fats I avoid anyway. Is there something wrong with having too much omega-6?

Yes I have a small free-range pig business with a friend. I generally avoid commercial pork because of what they're fed and also I don't approve of the way pigs are treated in most operations. I'm using bought unhydrogenated lard at the moment but we'll be slaughtering one of the sows when she's weaned her next litter, and I'll get enough fat off her to make buckets of lard. I'll freeze it in small batches, and it'll probably last me a year or so even after I've given some to friends. I'm also planning on trying making traditional lardo, and pancetta as well.

Too much omega6 relative to omega3 increases inflammation in the body. Excess inflammation is related to the diseases of civilisation such as heart disease. Reducing inflammation is one of the major benefits of the paleo diet. So long as you avoid all those seed oils, grains, seeds and too many nuts, and get most of your fat from grass-fed ruminants and oily fish, your omega6:omega3 ratio will be great. Macadamias aren't so bad as their fat is mostly monounsaturated, and they don't contain as many antinutrients as other nuts. Other nuts should be limited to one small handful per day. This is why you don't want to start making baked goods with almond "flour" and suchlike - it loads your diet with way too much omega6.

If you can get New Zealand butter that is always grass-fed.

Offline Jean

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Re: Hello everyone :)
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2011, 09:32:45 PM »
Tallow is easy to make. I go into my butcher on the day he's breaking down carcasses and he gives me fat for free because I'm a regular. I oven-render it as it's easier. I just slice the fat finely and spread it in a roasting pan, then put it in a cool-moderate oven. I keep pouring the fat off every half hour or so until it stops coming, about two or three hours. The bits that are left make quite a nice crackling snack sprinkled with sea salt. The yield is about 50%, ie 2 kilos of fat yields about 1 kilo of tallow. That lasts me for ages.

Offline celticcavegirl

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Re: Hello everyone :)
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2011, 06:33:08 AM »

Thanks for that, cleared up a bit for me. I'm fine using olive oil for cooking, if needs be. Grass fed butter, however, I don't think you can get that in the UK, if you can it's been hiding from me!

Sure you can - Kerrygold is grassfed and very widely available!
I would stay away from any commercial lard or in fact any regular pork in general.  Pigs are the most abused of all our farm animals, and also the o6/o3 ratio of any commercial lard will be far less than idea so I would say butter/ghee is better.

If you don't have it already, order a copy of Hugh F-Ws 'Meat' book
If you're still shopping in the supermarket for your meat, chose organic if you can - although some supermarkets have a very poor selection!  One can usually find organic chicken thighs/drumsticks, organic beef/lamb mince, organic beef/lamb joints.  Organic pork is a trickier, there is none at all in my local, very large Sainsburys, but Waitrose carries it

Better still to find a butcher :)
Sugar addiction kills more people than all other kinds of drugs combined

If your food needs a prefix, it's not paleo!

E.M.F.

Offline MsCurry

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Re: Hello everyone :)
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2011, 11:38:48 AM »
Hello again, and thank you both for your input. :)

I doubt I'd be any good at making tallow, the feel of animal fat disgusts me. Same with raw eggs. I have to wash my hands raw if I touch either!

I will order that book today then.

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Re: Hello everyone :)
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2011, 11:38:48 AM »