Author Topic: Involuntary celibacy - the underground epidemic  (Read 102407 times)

Offline GinaG

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Re: Involuntary celibacy - the underground epidemic
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2011, 05:40:15 PM »
Being in an older generation, I can tell you that if you are a woman in this age group - 60's to 80's - forget much dating, etc., and if you do date, these older men - the few that are still "alive" - all they want is sex, nothing else.  They get up, put their pants on and leave - going to play golf or whatever, and talk about the women they find "easy." 

I don't think that I will ever get married again.  When Doug leaves this world, and should I still be alive, I doubt I would want another man in my life.  I'm a dollmaker and I still have a career, I find that I don't have the need for a male companion as I used to have.  I'm quite capable of doing most of everything on my own.  But yet there are women out there who insist they cannot do without a man in their life. 

Anyway in the older groups this is how it is.  Sorry if I offend anyone!

 :D

Offline Wlfdg

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Re: Involuntary celibacy - the underground epidemic
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2011, 05:48:56 PM »
We should set up a paleo dieters dating website.
That's a GREAT idea! Paleo is not a real social style of eating.
Sorry if I offend anyone!
 :D
Somehow I don't think that's possible.
Our big boar grizzlies are out and about. Have you seen any yet?


Offline GinaG

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Re: Involuntary celibacy - the underground epidemic
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2011, 05:56:08 PM »
Yes, a boar grizzley using one of our trees for a rub.  And one mama black with two adorable cubbies with her.  Loads of elk, and mule deer have been in our yard, and it's "stitched" all over with their trails.  They are stripping the trees of lower branches and standing up on hind legs to get the moss off the branches further up that they can reach.  We still have about 4 to 5 feet of snow in the meadows here.  I have three meadows here along with literally tons of fir and pine!  8 acres is a lot of land to look at !

Offline samjohn

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Re: Involuntary celibacy - the underground epidemic
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2011, 06:15:36 PM »
I saw in an essay somewhere that dna research had shown that todays humans are descended from twice as many women as men (80% to 40%). This 'involuntary celibacy' is not new at all, in fact the situation is probably better now than it has been in the past.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 01:30:25 AM by samjohn »

Offline samjohn

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Re: Involuntary celibacy - the underground epidemic
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2011, 06:21:12 PM »
Well with the pay gap at more than 10% for FULL TIME workers in the UK I'm not going to get too upset about that yet, sorry!  Yes, now they have to compete with women for the same jobs...and why should they not?  They still get paid more for doing *the exact same jobs*.

Time and time again it has been shown that the gap in pay is exactly equal to the amount men negotiate above the asking salary and how often they negotiate for pay rises. If women want to be paid more, they need to learn how to negotiate for it

It's quite hard to understand at times. A female friend of mine who is very very good at her job, got offered 25% more at another company, but didn't really want to leave. I told her, take their salary offer and show it to your boss and ask him if he can beat it. It took a lot of persuading on my part for her to agree to try it. She now gets paid 30% more for the same job. Guys do this stuff naturally, women need to learn.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 06:26:08 PM by samjohn »


Offline Paleo Curmudgeon

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Re: Involuntary celibacy - the underground epidemic
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2011, 06:25:21 PM »
Being in an older generation, I can tell you that if you are a woman in this age group - 60's to 80's - forget much dating, etc., and if you do date, these older men - the few that are still "alive" - all they want is sex, nothing else.  They get up, put their pants on and leave - going to play golf or whatever, and talk about the women they find "easy." 


Men at that age realize they don't have much time left. They need to get in that game of golf right away. They could be dead by tomorrow. ;D

Offline C C G

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Re: Involuntary celibacy - the underground epidemic
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2011, 06:30:57 PM »
Well with the pay gap at more than 10% for FULL TIME workers in the UK I'm not going to get too upset about that yet, sorry!  Yes, now they have to compete with women for the same jobs...and why should they not?  They still get paid more for doing *the exact same jobs*.

Time and time again it has been shown that the gap in pay is exactly equal to the amount men negotiate above the asking salary and how often they negotiate for pay rises. If women want to be paid more, they need to learn how to negotiate for it

It's quite hard to understand at times. A female friend of mine who is very very good at her job, got offered 25% more at another company, but didn't really want to leave. I told her, take their salary offer and show it to your boss and ask him if he can beat it. It took a lot of persuading on my part for her to agree to try it. She now gets paid 30% more for the same job. Guys do this stuff naturally, women need to learn.

very true!

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Involuntary celibacy - the underground epidemic
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2011, 10:17:37 PM »
They have no real interest in relating to women either - for them women are people you have sex with, not people you're friends with.

That attitude used to bug me no end.  In my cohort, it worked, too - my contemporaries who had the least problems getting dates as young adults were the ones who treated their girlfriends like dirt.  If that has changed, I think that's great!

I'm 24 years old, very well educated, independent, solvent, and reasonably attractive (judge for yourself!).  I've been single for 3 years, through choice.  Not because of lack of offers, but because I haven't found a guy worth not being single for.  I live in London, I've been on a lot of dates - most bad!
My minimum dating age for the guy is 30.  Preferably 32-36

Yup.  Perfect argument for men in their 20s to be patient, 'cause things will get better for them in their 30s.

And honestly, I'm not that picky! You go to dating sites and half the men either post pictures of themselves with their shirts off or just of their motorcycles.

Believe it or not, those ab shots work, especially for younger men.  Here's an article with a statistical analysis from the OKCupid site showing that ab shots are almost twice as effective as the average photograph for 20 year old men:

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-4-big-myths-of-profile-pictures/

Getting back to the original topic, I guess I'd also note that there's a big difference between looking for casual sex and looking for a relationship.  I generally think in terms of the latter; where Wlfdg says, "food is not entertainment, food is fuel", I would say, "sex is not for recreation, sex is for procreation."

Offline el cogollero

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Re: Involuntary celibacy - the underground epidemic
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2011, 12:54:52 AM »
They have no real interest in relating to women either - for them women are people you have sex with, not people you're friends with.

I hope this doesn't apply to me - I think I have the opposite problem and often find myself in the "friend zone", from where there's no route back to possible romance.

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Re: Involuntary celibacy - the underground epidemic
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2011, 01:21:07 AM »
I saw in an essay somewhere that dna research had shown that todays humans are descended from twice as many women as men (80% to 40%). This 'involuntary celibacy' is not new at all, in fact the situation is probably better now than it has been in the past.

I would wonder how much of this is due to consensual female sexual selection of the fittest mates or alpha males mating with many different women, or large scale rape that has happened in the past.

16,000,000 Asians are descended from Gengis Kahn and his sons for that very reason, though I suppose that could be considered the conquests of alpha males, if you look at it that way.  To me consent is part of the alpha male equation.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 01:27:40 AM by samjohn »

Offline samjohn

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Re: Involuntary celibacy - the underground epidemic
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2011, 01:27:05 AM »
I saw in an essay somewhere that dna research had shown that todays humans are descended from twice as many women as men (80% to 40%). This 'involuntary celibacy' is not new at all, in fact the situation is probably better now than it has been in the past.

I would wonder how much of this is due to consensual female sexual selection of the fittest mates or alpha males mating with many different women, or large scale rape that has happened in the past.

16,000,000 Asians are descended from Gengis Kahn and his sons for that very reason, though I suppose that could be considered the conquests of alpha males, if you look at it that way.  To me consent is part of the alpha male equation.

Very good point, the consent idea changes the dynamic quite a lot. What it doesn't change is that the largest part of the male population did not get a chance to reproduce.

However the alpha male part is irrelevant really as the dudes who could beat up other guys and force themselves on women were the alpha males back then. The criteria may be slightly different now, but I would not be surprised if the percentages (80% to 40%) were the same.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 01:31:19 AM by samjohn »

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Involuntary celibacy - the underground epidemic
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2011, 01:32:36 AM »
I saw in an essay somewhere that dna research had shown that todays humans are descended from twice as many women as men (80% to 40%). This 'involuntary celibacy' is not new at all, in fact the situation is probably better now than it has been in the past.

I would wonder how much of this is due to consensual female sexual selection of the fittest mates or alpha males mating with many different women, or large scale rape that has happened in the past.

16,000,000 Asians are descended from Gengis Kahn and his sons for that very reason, though I suppose that could be considered the conquests of alpha males, if you look at it that way.  To me consent is part of the alpha male equation.

Women don't need to be raped en mass.  Women prefer / get impregnated by alpha males and go getter males. 

Today's people have screwed around with natural sexuality and by default are contraceptive.

Where contraceptive sex = safe sex
And real life giving sex = UNsafe sex

Only doom can come of this idiotic mass experiment.  Same as the fall of the roman empire populations from 0 to 200 AD.  Such is the fate of contraceptive civilizations.  It's a boom and bust cycle.

He who deposits his sperm in a fertile womb gets to reproduce.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 01:39:26 AM by goodsamaritan »

Offline samjohn

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Re: Involuntary celibacy - the underground epidemic
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2011, 02:23:34 AM »
Today's people have screwed around with natural sexuality and by default are contraceptive.

Where contraceptive sex = safe sex
And real life giving sex = UNsafe sex

Only doom can come of this idiotic mass experiment.  Same as the fall of the roman empire populations from 0 to 200 AD.  Such is the fate of contraceptive civilizations.  It's a boom and bust cycle.

I really do try to give you the benefit of the doubt, but lines like the above are just idiotic. In a world that contains aids/hiv, syphillis, herpes, chlamydia etc, you're trying to suggest that unprotected (lifegiving) sex is safe sex? Wake the f@%k up.

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Re: Involuntary celibacy - the underground epidemic
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2011, 02:30:43 AM »
I saw in an essay somewhere that dna research had shown that todays humans are descended from twice as many women as men (80% to 40%). This 'involuntary celibacy' is not new at all, in fact the situation is probably better now than it has been in the past.

I would wonder how much of this is due to consensual female sexual selection of the fittest mates or alpha males mating with many different women, or large scale rape that has happened in the past.

16,000,000 Asians are descended from Gengis Kahn and his sons for that very reason, though I suppose that could be considered the conquests of alpha males, if you look at it that way.  To me consent is part of the alpha male equation.

Women don't need to be raped en mass.  Women prefer / get impregnated by alpha males and go getter males.

In the case of Gengis Kahn though, and countless other times in recorded history (and surely before recorded history), a good deal of their procreating was rape.  Rape of other tribes, rape of your enemies, breeding out your enemies, etc.

When you consider that these guys would potentially be able to impregnate hundreds if not thousands of women, that could have a pretty big impact!

I saw in an essay somewhere that dna research had shown that todays humans are descended from twice as many women as men (80% to 40%). This 'involuntary celibacy' is not new at all, in fact the situation is probably better now than it has been in the past.

I would wonder how much of this is due to consensual female sexual selection of the fittest mates or alpha males mating with many different women, or large scale rape that has happened in the past.

16,000,000 Asians are descended from Gengis Kahn and his sons for that very reason, though I suppose that could be considered the conquests of alpha males, if you look at it that way.  To me consent is part of the alpha male equation.

Very good point, the consent idea changes the dynamic quite a lot. What it doesn't change is that the largest part of the male population did not get a chance to reproduce.

However the alpha male part is irrelevant really as the dudes who could beat up other guys and force themselves on women were the alpha males back then. The criteria may be slightly different now, but I would not be surprised if the percentages (80% to 40%) were the same.

Definitely, it still doesn't change the fact, and I agree that it probably is much the same ratio now.

Nowadays though it clearly comes down more to consensual female selection for the most part, women are generally in the position to choose who they mate with.  Extremely attractive guys may be able to bust through that to some extent but I doubt any guy has the literally almost limitless options that being a even moderately attractive woman gets you.

I think it's pretty tough being a guy right now, and women are hard to please.  The line between being too masculine and too feminine is pretty thin.  Most women don't want to be completely controlled (as it was in the past) but there's still that desire for power, assertiveness, and confidence.

It's probably easier to focus on a career and making money than trying to figure out how to be appealing to women psychologically, LOL.