Author Topic: Paleofantasy  (Read 17255 times)

Offline donnaballard

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Paleofantasy
« on: January 17, 2013, 07:43:22 AM »
Havent been on here for a while...coming up on 3 years of paleo and its still working for me. Has anyone addressed this new book Paleofantasy by Zuk that is coming out soon. In it she "debunks" us. Have not read it yet (trying for a pre-pub copy from the publisher) but according to reviews, she has bravely stepped up to expose a dangerous fad-paleo.  She is a science writer and believes we are silly and very dangerous.
I have already had it out with someone on goodreads who admits that there is something admirable in the way we eat but feels science should kill our backstory of foods that don't fit our evolutionary eating patterns. I expect she is fighting for her right to lie on the couch and snarf cheese doodles. Talk about cashing in on a "fad." Anyway, thoughts?

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Paleofantasy
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2013, 07:44:06 PM »
I'm okay with her killing herself with cheese doodles.  Labeling us "dangerous" may be more dangerous, though.


Offline donnaballard

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Re: Paleofantasy
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2013, 12:50:16 PM »
warren-just got a copy of this book...she quotes extensively from this site, as if we are ridiculous....I can't send you my copy as it is an egalley but its really something you should look out for....did she get permission to quote us or does she need it?

Offline samjohn

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Re: Paleofantasy
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2013, 06:27:35 PM »
Seems quite a facetious way to write a book, quoting forum posts and 'debunking' them. If she'd like to see how a real science writer goes about their business, she should read Good Calories, Bad Calories.

As to your other question http://www.copyrightaid.co.uk/forum/topic27.htm would seem to suggest that the forum posts are owned by the site owner and of course the original poster, and she has no right to use them with commercial intent without express permission, which is exactly what she is doing if she is selling a book.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 06:38:04 PM by samjohn »

Offline donnaballard

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Re: Paleofantasy
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2013, 07:06:06 PM »
this is the amazon info on this book-tommorrow i will write some quotes zuk used from the caveman forum
http://www.amazon.com/Paleofantasy-Evolution-Really-Tells-ebook/dp/B007Q6XM1A


Offline donnaballard

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Re: Paleofantasy
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2013, 07:35:34 AM »
warren you are quoted and cited in the bibliography from the forum as follows
comment-616849. 4. Warren Dew, February 1, 2011 (7:36 p.m.) reply#3 on topic "Whats {sic} Wrong With Cheese?" Caveman Forum (then website URL)
several quotes from this blog, also Daily Apple

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Paleofantasy
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2013, 01:38:20 PM »
One of my more off the cuff comments.  I guess she avoided the ones where I put in a bunch of references to scientific papers.  Perhaps I'll have to get a copy and add references to all the posts she cites.

I am curious how that particular quote came out, now that I've looked up the actual comment.  Can you give me the quote as used in the book?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 02:15:28 PM by Warren Dew »

Offline samjohn

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Re: Paleofantasy
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2013, 04:39:31 PM »
I'm assuming that you did not give permission to be quoted in her book? :)

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Paleofantasy
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2013, 06:39:17 PM »
Not so far as I remember.  If someone had asked offhandedly in a post here if they could quote me, I might have said "sure" without thinking anything of it.

Offline donnaballard

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Re: Paleofantasy
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2013, 12:22:31 PM »


On the forum, one response to this question "What's wrong with cheese?" was:
   I don't eat cheese because it is not paleo, as Paleo Dude says.  The basic idea behind paleois that we are adapted to what we ate during the 2,000,000 years of the paleolithic, so those things are safe. Anything else is questionable.

She goes on to talk about how this gene for lactose intolerance is evolving to lactose acceptance.

Her premise is that since we are evolving and adapting, anyone who justifies anything by referring to the way our ancestors did anything thousands of years ago is living in paleofantasyland.  This includes eating, exercising, and body functions.

Offline samjohn

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Re: Paleofantasy
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2013, 02:34:40 PM »
Not so far as I remember.  If someone had asked offhandedly in a post here if they could quote me, I might have said "sure" without thinking anything of it.

Still if you are quoted you could/should demand a copy(free) to confirm you have been quoted correctly.

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Paleofantasy
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2013, 07:55:48 PM »
Thanks, Donna.  I guess she skipped my numerous posts going into adult lactose tolerance in detail.

Offline JayJay

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Re: Paleofantasy
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2013, 10:34:10 AM »
You know, I don't know anything about the author other than what I've read online, and I haven't read this book and probably won't. After the decades of bad medical and diet advice leveled at me from "the experts", Paleo changed my life. Of all the "treatments". "therapies", "protocols", and "diets" I've been on, and there have been many, going Paleo made more difference in my life for the better than EVERYTHING else that did any good at all, combined. So really, I don't give a flying fart what this "author" says about this lifestyle. Sounds like another academic snob who has likely never had to seek radical or alternative treatment for a mysterious illness, and therefore has not even tried it herself and doesn't intend to.

But the mere existence of the book begs the question, why? It's not like the Paleo movement is even close to mainstream enough for a pundit to make a name for herself by denouncing it. Who cares? Why all the energy expenditure on discrediting a diet that has an infinitesimal following in the grand scheme of things?

Well, I'll tell you my theory which is based on something similar I've seen before in the pet food industry.

I feed my dogs what is referred to as the "raw meaty bone" or "prey model raw" diet. It's a diet based on the premise that dogs are carnivores, and therefore should eat like carnivores in the wild eat. Or as close to mimicking that in polite society and with modern foods as we can realistically. It's basically their ancestral diet. In fact, after seeing them thrive on this diet, and watching many of their ailments vanish, it made me wonder what the human-equivalent ancestral diet was, which is what lead me to Paleo.

There are many versions of "raw" diets for dogs and during my early research phase many years ago, I noticed a disturbing trend. Whenever any kind of raw diet got any attention or mainstream exposure, a "study" or barrage of "experts" would suddenly appear to discredit the diet with lies and manufactured data designed to scare the shit out of everyone feeding raw and convince them that raw feeding would kill their cute little adorable fuzzy family pet.

Often times when this happened though, a few people would dig for the source of the "scary propaganda" and more often that not, it would lead to some "study" or statement funded by or disseminated by the commercial pet food industry. You see, the pet food industry is a multi-billion dollar business, and virtually unregulated. Any time anything or anyone comes along that attempts to expose the truth about what kind of disgusting and inappropriate things are in pet food, or questions whether dogs and cats should EVER eat things like rice, corn, soy, wheat, etc. (sound familiar?), in other words, the fillers in pet food that make it so incredibly profitable, the industry would scramble to launch an attack on whoever was trying to expose the truth.

It's dry reading but if you ever want to get some insight into how dirty and intertwined the pet food and veterinary industries are, look up the books by Dr. Tom Lonsdale, namely Raw Meaty Bones. What you read will disgust you and make you realize that consumers are constantly manipulated and their ability to make decisions based on solid facts is continuously under assault by big business.

As such, one can't help but wonder if Paleofantasy is some such book, where the author was retained, probably indirectly, by oh, say, the agricultural industry, to discredit the foundation of Paleo so the industry can forever use the "research" in the book to generate quotes, talking points, and sound bites to undermine the very idea that humans eat a lot of crap that they simply aren't designed to eat. It's like prophylactic damage control.

I have no idea if this is the case and I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Still, I know it goes on in other, much smaller industries with a lot less to lose than Big AG.

Just sayin'.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 06:03:21 PM by JayJay »

Offline donnaballard

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Re: Paleofantasy
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2013, 05:40:56 AM »
Marlene Zak (and I know you are monitoring this forum-Hey Marlene) has had a bug up her throat for a long time about paleo.  She wrote an essay in the New York Times in 2009 that she obviously developed into this new book. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20essa.html?n=Top%2fNews%2fScience%2fTopics%2fEvolution&_r=0
I guess it didn't make too much of an impact since the paleo lifestyle has exploded in the past 3 years that I've been a follower (I am a librarian and now I have to choose through the myriad of paleo cookbooks that have suddenly materialized.)  I guess the bigger we grow, the better chance there is to make a name for toppling us.

Offline JayJay

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Re: Paleofantasy
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2013, 07:34:02 AM »
Based on this article alone, she sounds like a shill for the dairy industry which, interestingly enough, has been struggling to regain the lost market share of its glory days, and is desperate to solidify its future.

I won't even start on the whole stupid lactose tolerance argument, which is still rampant in society, and is only part of the problem with human consumption of milk and milk-based products.