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Messages - Warren Dew

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4456
Miscellaneous / Re: Obesity taking hold in Africa
« on: December 16, 2009, 11:29:32 AM »
What strikes me is that, when I was in Japan a couple of years ago, the low number of obese or overweight people that you see, compared to here in the U.S.  If you go out to the stores, etc. here, it seems like virtually every person over the age of about 20 is starting to get overweight.  The high carb diet available must be doing it, as even guys who look relatively skinny, have a big stomach/midsection sticking out in front.  It's really pervasive.

This may depend on the part of the U.S. you're talking about.  While there are plenty of obese people in my area, there are a lot of thinner people as well.  When I visit the midwest, it seems like everyone is overweight.

4457
Introductions / Re: Hi!!!
« on: December 16, 2009, 11:26:24 AM »
Chicken with skin is better than chicken without skin.  Vegetable oil is not so good; no vegetable oil is technically paleo, though some of us use olive oil as the next best thing.  Bacon grease probably has some of the salt from the bacon, but aside from that should be fine.

Note that if you have carb cravings, having a little bit of carbohydrate will not make them go away for very long, and will make them worse after an hour or so.

4458
Miscellaneous / Re: Sex life since paleo
« on: December 16, 2009, 10:19:42 AM »
Why do you think that, Warren?

I think paleo people would have had builds similar to modern atheletes - not necessarily because they exercised as much, but because they probably didn't eat more carbohydrate calories than they burned off.

Here's a page with a chart at the bottom providing a figure of "<17%" for female athelete body fat.  I think 10-20% is a likely range for paleo women, with more toward the bottom of that range.

http://www.nutribase.com/fwchartf.shtml

Here's a page with some illustrations:

http://www.dakotabody.com/why-bod-pod.php

Honestly even the 15% picture looks to me a little fatter in the thighs - and less muscular - than women I know, either in person or who have posted pictures on this site, that follow a paleo or similar diet.


4459
Research / Re: I saw this in the news and it's scaring me.
« on: December 16, 2009, 09:49:20 AM »
Quote
Low carb diet

Breakfast - Scrambled eggs (40 g); bacon rasher, fat trimmed, grilled
(20 g); hash brown, grilled (45 g)

Lunch - Wholemeal bread (72 g), cooked ham (30 g), mayonnaise
(25 g)

Dinner - Potatoes, in skins, boiled (145 g); chicken breast in
crumbs, baked (140 g); peas, boiled (95 g); carrots,
boiled (70 g); gravy instant granules (4 g)

Additional - Peanuts, roasted and salted (40 g); Brazil nuts (30 g);
butter (21 g); cheddar cheese (44 g);

That's "low carb"?  Hash browns, bread, potatoes ... and of course peas, peanuts, and cheese to make it even more nonpaleo.

4460
Diet and nutrition / Re: The study of meat only diets
« on: December 16, 2009, 09:33:23 AM »
I wonder if the cataract epidemic may have some dietary component.  Honeslty, more people work indoors and exercise indoors and on average most peope probably get less sun exposure now then in past generations.  It would seem that sun exposure was not the main culprit.

Cataracts are associated with diabetes and smoking.  The diabetes connection suggests that excessive carbohydrates may be an issue.

It's known that farsightedness is related to crosslinking of the proteins in the lens - crosslinking that happens when blood sugar reacts with the the proteins.  I wonder if cataracts might have a similar cause.

4461
Diet and nutrition / Re: The study of meat only diets
« on: December 16, 2009, 07:58:03 AM »
Marika, Don does recommend supplementing Magnesium. I agree with you on vitamin D (i supplement 5000IU/day), but disagree with needing to supplement vitamin K. AFAIK theres plenty in organ meats and muscle meats. Im not well enough versed on Thiamin and Manganese. Have you come across any studies or case histories that have shown a meat only diet leads to the typical symptoms of deficiency in Thiamin, Manganese or Vitamin C?

Keep in mind that the body can synthesize vitamin D with sunlight exposure.  There should be no reason to supplement if you get adequate sunlight, though for people who work indoors getting adequate sunlight can be difficult.

My own experience is that I don't seem to have any need for vitamin C on a mostly meat diet as long as I don't have any carbohydrates.  However, without vitamin C, even a small amount of sugar or starch can really do a number on one's immune system.  I think that's consistent with Andersson's experience where he got pneumonia only after stopping his meat only diet.  (I think it was Andersson, not Stefansson).

With regard to some of the other issues in this thread:

I don't think it's reasonable to say that a meat only diet is low in calcium - bones have lots of calcium!  If some people don't want to get calcium from bones, that's fine, but I don't have a problem with it and I suspect others don't either.  Not everyone has to eat exactly the same diet or get their nutrients in exactly the same way.

The Inuit that Stefansson and Andersson lived with ate an all meat - specifically all fish - diet for six months, through the winter.  It's not clear whether they might have supplemented with small amounts of berries or vegetable matter during the summer, so this doesn't prove that a permanent all meat diet diet was used, but it does prove that it is fine for at least six months at a time, provided one eats all necessary parts of the animal and not just lean muscle.

Marika, interesting point on the thiamine.  I certainly feel better when I have pork at least once a week, and not just beef and fish.  I'd like to see more than just a couple of measurements on the thiamine before drawing conclusions, though, as I don't understand why pork would have a different composition from beef; as Paleo Dude noted at some point, sometimes these figures come from a very limited number of samples, and sometimes the zeros just mean they didn't measure for it.

4462
Food Journals / Re: Cautionary tales #3
« on: December 15, 2009, 04:11:51 PM »
So, you'd think I'd learn, but apparently not....

Just to close the loop, I'll mention how this turned out.  That post was from a Sunday; I was sick enough to stay home from work on Monday, and was sick but went in on Tuesday.  I figured it was just a sore throat and thus not too communicable, as I wasn't coughing.

Then I felt well enough by that Friday to have a couple ounces of chocolate - talk about not learning! - and got sick again for the weekend!  That time I was well enough to go in to work on Monday, though.

So, anyway, not nearly as bad as tale #1, when I had a lingering cough for six weeks, and I'm fine now, but I really need to stay away from the sugar!

4463
Diet and nutrition / Re: The study of meat only diets
« on: December 15, 2009, 04:03:02 PM »
I've also had some bad experiences from cheats when on a mostly meat diet.  Despite the low vitamin C, I don't seem to get sick as long as I don't cheat, but the immunosuppressive effects of refined sugar and other concentrated carbohydrates seem to be exacerbated on a diet devoid of inflammatory agents like grains.

Eventually I'm hoping I'll learn not to cheat; until then, I use vitamin C pills if I realize I've had too much carbohydrate.

4464
Introductions / Re: Hi!!!
« on: December 15, 2009, 01:29:45 PM »
Welcome!

If you're feeling very hungry on the paleo diet, you're probably following a version of the diet that's not quite right.  The most likely thing is that you're eating excessively lean meat and not getting enough fat.

Go ahead and eat fatty cuts of meat.

4465
Diet and nutrition / Re: Why is salt bad?
« on: December 15, 2009, 01:12:13 PM »
Two reasons I can think of off the top of my head:

1.  Table salt is exclusively sodium chloride, so excessive amounts of it tend to mess up one's electrolyte balance, specifically the sodium/potassium ratio.

2.  Many of us on the paleo diet find that excessive salt gives us the runs.

Very small amounts of salt are needed by the body; it's excessive amounts that are bad.

4466
Introductions / Re: Howdy...I'm starting today...
« on: December 15, 2009, 07:15:52 AM »
Welcome!

Tips:  too much salt is bad, yes, but fat can be good, especially those with good omega 3:6 ratios.  If you are trying to lose weight, starchy carbohydrates are the primary enemy, not fat.

For some reason I thought pork would be bad for me...at least bacon

Cured bacon with a lot of nitrates and salt can be bad, but it's because of the nitrates and salt, not the pork itself.  Uncured low salt bacon is fine.

4467
Miscellaneous / Re: Blood type
« on: December 14, 2009, 10:37:18 PM »
I'm A positive.  My wife is A negative.

4468
Diet and nutrition / Re: Low carb, no carb, what's the scoop?
« on: December 14, 2009, 12:40:35 PM »
I think in general dietary parlance, "low carb" is any diet that has fewer calories from carbohydrates than from fat.  By that definition, probably just about everyone on this forum eats "low carb".

A lot of people on this forum are closer to "very low carb", maybe in the range of 10% of calories from carbohydrates.

4469
Miscellaneous / Re: Depression
« on: December 13, 2009, 07:12:48 PM »
I keep reading about how happy and good you guys are feeling, that's great! I'm just wondering how you deal with being around all the other carb-eaters in your life? Are you able to be just as sociable as you were before? Do you allow yourself to have a glass of wine at parties? How do you manage to be so extremely different with your diet, while remaining a member of a food-focused/carb-focused world? I live in North Carolina, and that's all people do around here... eat, party, and eat some more... everyone in the Carolinas is pretty much overweight. It's madness!  :D

Well, I'm married and have kids, so I mostly socialize with my family; that makes it not a problem for me.

That said, I've always been a teetotaler, so I've always avoided alcohol based entertainment.  When I have lunch with coworkers, I just order something with meat and don't eat the nonpaleo parts of the meal.


4470
I ended up buying Gedgaudes's book.  I've read maybe a quarter to a third of it, but I do have some comments.

I don't disagree with the general thrust of her book, but I do notice that she has a strong tendency to oversimplify and to state things in a much more positive way than is justified.  Where Taubes will take you all the way through voluminous amounts of research and let you decide for yourself, Gedgaudes will just present the conclusions - and they'll be her conclusions, not necessarily the researchers' conclusions.

Her discussion of the mToR pathway is a good example.  She says the mToR pathway is the "protein switch" the way insulin is the "carbohydrate switch".  As it turns out, though, that's quite misleading; if you look at the actual research, mToR reacts to all caloric intake, and the protein sensitivity doesn't appear to be much higher than the carbohydrate sensitivity.

In addition, some parts of the book read more like a list of notes than like an organized book.  For me, this makes it hard to read - but without the benefit from Taubes's book of getting more information.

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