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Messages - Warren Dew

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Progress Reports & Photos / Re: exercise and weightloss
« on: January 27, 2010, 11:28:26 PM »
First off, thanks for splitting this thread!

If you do not use muscle it disappears, and it hangs onto the fat as an energy store. It is as simple as that. What do you think replaces it?

I don't think it's that simple.  What you say is indeed what happens when someone goes on a starvation version of the standard American diet.  But that's because the standard American diet has barely enough animal protein to start with; cut it in half, and of course the dieter will lose muscle.  Meanwhile, there's still plenty of carbohydrate to cause insulin spikes which drive the calories into fat rather than allowing them to be burned as fuel.

On a paleo diet things are quite different, though.  There's plenty of animal protein to maintain muscle.  Carbohydrates are more limited and generally less insulinogenic, so lower and more stable insulin levels allow the stored fat to be burned as fuel.

While I do agree with wlfdg that fear of injury shouldn't prevent one from getting exercise, I do also think there may be some merit to marika's idea that obese people who are losing weight are essentially people who are recovering from a prolonged illness, and should take appropriate care in doing that.

Moreover I just posted an article above which more than suggests that sedentary behaviour in itself is a huge health concern. But I guess it is easier to just ignore it.

I don't know if it was there when you linked it, but your second link has a huge disclaimer that the study in question didn't prove anything; a correlation is not a causation.  And again, statistics that apply to people on a deficient standard diet don't say much about people on a healthy paleo diet.

I don't think Wlfdg wanted us all to climb mountains twice a day like he does, just that a lifestyle without exercise was absolutely not healthy. I agree.

I see it a little differently.

I'd be more than happy to climb mountains all day if there were any mountains on my doorstep and if climbing mountains and snowboarding were my way of life.  I was even willing to jump on an exercise bike and dial my heart rate up to 180 bpm when it helped me in competition.  However, I'm not willing to waste a lot of time driving to a gym full of specialized machines for artificial exercise that has nothing to do with my present lifestyle.

If I could find a way to get more exercise as a natural part of my life, I would.  As it is, though, what fits in is walking up to my office instead of taking the elevator and carrying a toddler around all the time.  I'm open to suggestions that don't involve artificially setting aside spare time that I don't have.

Progress Reports & Photos / Re: exercisegate
« on: January 27, 2010, 11:02:44 PM »
That's a little harsh.  She did do a lot of research and dredged up some interesting info.

Not to mention her very interesting foray into meat only, from which I think we learned a lot.

Well, this has saddened me very much.  :(  I am going to bow out so that Wlfdg can come back.

I don't think you need to do that.  I'm sure Wlfdg is quite capable of making his own decisions without needing other people to make way for him.

Introductions / Re: ...uh...hello
« on: January 27, 2010, 06:16:16 PM »

It sounds like you're off to a great start - except for the pretzel sticks, of course.  Good job tossing the croutons.

Miscellaneous / Re: Are paleo kids better behaved?
« on: January 27, 2010, 06:08:37 PM »
Eg.: among my cousins, my sibling and me there were a couple clear troublemakers and a couple of chill kids with another one in between. We were all fed pretty much the same (non paleo) diet.

I certainly wouldn't call these other kids troublemakers.  They were just ... overly energetic for a while.

Given the other responses, I'm thinking it's sugar or other carbs.

Introductions / Re: Hello....
« on: January 27, 2010, 05:21:35 PM »
Sounds like you did well today.

As Il Capo said, wine's not paleo, chicken stock is barring nonpaleo ingredients, and carrots are.  I consider tomatoes to be paleo but I don't eat them; some consider them and other members of the nightshade family not to be strictly paleo because they are new world plants with which we didn't coevolve during the paleolithic.

Miscellaneous / Are paleo kids better behaved?
« on: January 27, 2010, 02:45:41 PM »
Our daughter Margaret isn't strictly paleo at the moment - long story - but we're trying to keep her as close as possible.  We're feeding her paleo solids, and while we give her dairy, we try to get that part of her diet as close to human breast milk as possible by combining the right ratios of milk, cream, and dairy based formula.  She's a long way from standard American toddler fare, as we don't give her starchy or grain based baby foods; her macronutrient balance is pretty close to paleo.

We visited some of her friends for a play date this past weekend, arriving immediately after lunch.  The other kids were kind of hyperactive and noisy for the first few hours, to the point where their parents had to tell them to calm down quite a few times.  I don't think this was just because Margaret was there, as the novelty probably wore off after the first half hour or so.  It did seem pretty normal for modern American kids, except that Margaret was such a contrast, happily playing in a quiet way.

Has anyone else noticed anything like this?  It was as if the other kids were burning off the starchy neolithic portions of their lunch for the first few hours.  Is the way to have a child that's "seen but not heard" to feed them a paleo diet?

Introductions / Re: Nice cave! Mind if I join you??
« on: January 27, 2010, 02:27:28 PM »
Corey, question for you.  What was your fat intake over the last six months?  Did you stick with very lean meat?

The reason I ask is this.  Many of us who are just maintaining a healthy weight on paleo - or who are trying to gain muscle weight - find that we need fatty meats to get enough calories and avoid hunger.  As a result, we tend to tell newcomers to paleo to eat more fat.

However, I'm wondering if that's the best advice for someone who is significantly overweight and needs to lose weight.  I'm thinking that it may be possible that people who are significantly overweight will do better sticking to lean meat and using their own reserves of fat instead, at least until they reach their healthy weight.

I'm hoping your experience can shed some light on this topic.

Diet and nutrition / Re: Vitamin D
« on: January 27, 2010, 02:16:10 PM »
Some info on cod liver oil and vitamins A and D:

Diet and nutrition / Re: good eating habits
« on: January 27, 2010, 02:06:54 PM »
fruits (carbs)
veggies (carbs)
meat (steak,shrimp,salmon,chicken) (protein)

These are good, with the emphasis on the last four.

fats: avocado, nuts, green beans, spinach, olive oil

Green beans are legumes and not paleo.  Olive oil is also nonpaleo, though it's not as bad as most vegetable oils.  Probably the best fat is unhydrogenated pastured lard if you can find it.

stay away:
proccesed foods
grains in general

Also stay way from:
legumes - all beans and peas including peanuts in all forms
dairy - all milk and milk products

Progress Reports & Photos / exercise and weightloss
« on: January 27, 2010, 01:24:35 PM »
Must be something to do with January.

I suspect so.  Perhaps over the winter months we deplete our internal reserves of sunshine from the previous summer.  Unfortunately in the modern world it's difficult to just stay in our caves and eat frozen mammoth until spring.

I hope wlfdg is going to be okay.  His lifestyle was probably the closest to paleolithic of anyone here.

Research / Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« on: January 27, 2010, 12:03:45 PM »
Isn't it interesting? I was especially compelled by it too!

I almost said "compelling" but then I realized there's still a strong alternative theory as well.  The alternative is that something changed in human psychology during the last ice age that caused us to prefer intensification and, ultimately, agriculture over a stable ecological niche as hunters.

The theory that it is purely a climatic change fails to explain why humans displaced neanderthals during this latest interglacial when that didn't happen during any of the previous interglacials.

Food Journals / Re: DTSMA68's Food Journal
« on: January 27, 2010, 11:53:44 AM »
Just be aware that diet soda is definitely nonpaleo.  Among other concerns, artificial sweeteners can cause insulin spikes even if they don't have any calories.

Diet and nutrition / Re: Vitamin D
« on: January 27, 2010, 09:33:35 AM »
I've taken to having a teaspoon of vitamin D on days when I get no sun.  Basically that means days when I do the commute with the convertible top up.

Miscellaneous / Re: Kidney?
« on: January 27, 2010, 07:29:05 AM »
So, is there anyone that knows, or has any information on this?  I guess she could do a limited protein and focus on veggies and fruit with less meat, but then she might be hungry.

She could probably avoid hunger by having enough fat.

Also it sounds like she has at least one good kidney, so I would think she'd be able to handle half the normal limit for protein.  1g protein per kg lean body mass per day might be well within her limits, even if 2g is not.

Progress Reports & Photos / exercise and weightloss
« on: January 26, 2010, 09:45:18 PM »
In my opinion this part is not correct. If you eat paleo but sit in a chair all day and do not do any sort of exercise, do you think that is not going to have a deleterious effect on your health?

I don't think it will have much of a deleterious effect, if any.

Two years ago I was on a standard American diet and mostly sedentary, and I had a host of chronic discomforts.  Now I am on a paleo diet and still mostly sedentary, and those discomforts have gone away.  And frankly, I would bet that if I'd stayed on my old diet and started getting lots of exercise, some of them would still be with me.

Now, would I be even more healthy if I managed to lead a more active life style?  I'm sure I would - but the additional benefit would be in terms of physical fitness, not the absence of chronic ills that I already no longer have.

Heck, I'll even give you a specific example.  I used to have problems with hemorrhoids that flared up every few weeks.  Ten years ago, I went through a few years when I got a lot of exercise and was in very good condition, but it didn't change the situation with the hemorrhoids.  On the paleo diet, the hemorrhoids went away and haven't come back.

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