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Messages - Warren Dew

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Diet and nutrition / Re: So, nightshades...
« on: January 15, 2010, 07:29:54 AM »
How will we ever adapt to these foods (as a species) if we don't eat them?

Well, keep in mind that evolution works by selecting out the ones that aren't fit.  If we really needed to adapt to, say, grains, it would happen through the grain intolerant folks starving or dying from other bad effects of grains before they had kids.  I'm not volunteering to be one of the ones that dies, though.

Also, us adapting to the foods is not the only option.  We could adapt our foods to us.  Our current agriculture, which is based on fertilizer from fossil fuels, is not sustainable anyway; one of the things we could do is start doing more ranching and less farming.

Finally, as Tarlach points out, humans during the paleolithic spread out around the world but lived in balance with the environment for 2,000,000 years.  Then some time between 10,000 and 100,000 years ago, we changed our lifestyle and our population started growing and growing, until now when we're overrunning the available resources.  Maybe the answer is to shift back to the old ways to the extent we can.

Miscellaneous / Walking too slow?
« on: January 14, 2010, 07:14:01 PM »
I park three or four blocks from work.  Tonight, I worked late and wanted to get back to my daughter more quickly, and walking just seemed a lot and lazier than necessary.  So I ran instead.  This is in the middle of an urban area.

Is that too weird?  What if I started doing it on a regular basis, to save 10 minutes a day?

Miscellaneous / Re: So where are you from?
« on: January 14, 2010, 07:09:33 PM »
I'm from Somerville, Massachusetts, U.S.A.  It's about 25F here to compare to Paleo Dude's 25C.

I've been married for almost 10 years to someone who went paleo with me a year and a half ago, and I have an 18 month daughter - who is not paleo yet, long story - and a son due in 3 weeks.

Some of this is on my user profile.

Diet and nutrition / Re: "It's extreme and it's boring!" ...
« on: January 14, 2010, 06:36:19 PM »
- Stir fry. Lemon juice, pepper, salt, ginger, sesame seed oil. Again, lots of veggies. The oil is arguably not Paleo, though I always mix it in afterwards to avoid heating it.

If you can get your hands on grass fed tallow or pastured lard, they are great for stir fry.  The tallow especially hs a very high smoke point, and I think they make even the vegetables taste better.

Food Journals / Re: Chris' Paleolithic Food Log
« on: January 14, 2010, 05:37:06 PM »
The salmon turned out well, though I did cook it a little too fast; next time, I need to cook it for longer at a lower temperature so it's cooked more evenly.

Yes, there's an art to learning the right heat for each kind of meat.  Sounds like you'll have it down pretty quick, though, since you're paying more attention than I did.  It took me years!

Diet and nutrition / Re: Ethiopian food
« on: January 14, 2010, 05:25:19 PM »
Well, that was my point.  We're not talking about a snickers bar here.  We're talking about small amounts of butter and yogurt and possibly some beans mixed in with paleo food.

I guess it all depends on how small the amount is.  It's the amount that's important; the "it's not a Snickers bar" excuse doesn't fly.

A Snickers bar is around 200 kcal.  So is two slices of bread, a typical single serving container of yogurt, or one small serving of beans.

All are equally nonpaleo.  The bread, yogurt, or beans are just as bad, from the standpoint of the paleo diet, as the Snickers bar.

A single pat of butter, maybe not so much, since it's probably only 50 kcal or so.  But the whole "it's not junk food" excuse doesn't fly - if it's nonpaleo, it's junk food, as far as the paleo diet is concerned.  You might as well be eating the equivalent amount of a Snickers bar.

Go to the restaurant, try to be aware of what you're eating and don't demand that your friends choose paleo foods just to satisfy yourself.

That I agree with.  Go to the restaurant, pick something you can eat paleo from, and let your friends pick whatever they want.

Diet and nutrition / Re: "It's extreme and it's boring!" ...
« on: January 14, 2010, 05:14:09 PM »
I get premium gasoline for my car, and I enjoy eating.

What constitutes variety?  Typically over the course of a week, I'll have the following for dinner:  roast beef, baby back ribs (take out), strip steak, salmon fillet, salisbury steak (hamburger) maybe twice, and leftovers maybe once.  Everything except the roast beef and ribs are cooked in a frying pan.

I'm not sure it counts as variety, but every meal is delicious!

Diet and nutrition / Re: What to eat when sick?!
« on: January 14, 2010, 05:06:16 PM »
Bone broth, and rely on your fat reserves.

Diet and nutrition / Re: Suggestions for a grain lover?
« on: January 14, 2010, 05:05:35 PM »
Spaghetti squash can substitute for spaghetti.

Other than that, though, it's tough.  Substituting fruit is about as close as it gets for everyday situations.

Any chance you could just skip the grains on the meals she cooks?  Even spaghetti sauce is fine without the spaghetti.

It may be tough when you can't get rid of all the nonpaleo food in the house.  However:

Learning about good nutrition was like a revelation for me.

Excellent point.  Watching the video in the following thread might help:

Diet and nutrition / Re: So, nightshades...
« on: January 14, 2010, 07:53:26 AM »
Contrary to what you say, most experts and studies agree that animal saturated fat is not healthy.

It's true that most experts think animal fat is not healthy.  On the other hand, most experts say most of our calories should be from grain.

I don't think Tarlach is denying that.  I think that what Tarlach is pointing out is that the experts' dietary advice has been shown to be quite questionable.  The fundamental idea behind the paleolithic diet is to ignore the experts - that's why we don't eat grain - and instead pay attention to evolutionary reasoning:  to eat the same thing as we ate during the paleolithic, roughly 2,000,000 years ago to 50,000 years ago, or as close as we can get today.

Different people have different lines for "as close as we can get".  Some people stick to grass finished beef; others can't afford that and regular meat is as close as they can get.  Some people stick to old world fruit and vegetables; others accept new world fruits and vegetables.  Tarlach just happens to be stricter in the latter respect than some.  That's why he talks about omitting tomatoes from "strict" paleo.  I don't think he'd classify tomatoes as nonpaleo the same way wheat is, for example; he's just saying there's a level of strictness at which one would omit them.

I also generally stay away from nightshades.  I had some mild arthritis starting up just before I started paleo, and it didn't go away when I started paleo in other respects, but it did go away when I gave up nightshades a few weeks later.  I've also found that my sense of taste has since improved, and even unseasoned tomato paste will now burn off my taste buds a bit like hot peppers do for most people.  Does that have something to do with the fact that new world nightshades diverged from old world fruit 20,000,000 years ago, or not?  I don't know, but for me, nightshades have moved out of the "close enough" category.  Others who experience no symptoms from them may decide differently.

But the main issue is what kind of animal fat is it. Fat from cattle fed with cereals is quite different to that from wild animals and free range cattle fed only with grass ( omega6-omega3 rate), plus this ones are skinny since they haven't been fed to fatten them up. So, in order to imitate the meat that the hunter-gatherers ate we must either buy free range grass fed animal meat or (cheaper and widely available) skinny meat from any butcher's.

While I agree with you, the experts would still say to avoid fatty grass fed beef.  Beef fat has a better omega 3:6 ratio, yes, but it's still highly saturated.  If you think saturated fat is bad for you, you should stay away even from grass fed beef, and stick to fish and maybe pork.

I think it's difficult to justify avoiding saturated animal fat on the paleolithic diet.  As pointed out by many sources, most notably Taubes, the correlation between saturated fat and heart attack fatalities is very weak, and nonexistent for women.  It also fails to distinguish between paleo sources like animal fat and nonpaleo sources like butter and hydrogenated vegetable oil, the latter of which we now know contains substantial amounts of very unhealthy trans fats.

Introductions / Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« on: January 13, 2010, 06:58:32 PM »
Hmm I never thought about it like that but I'm not sure it works like that. The changes noted with regards to glucose and insulin action seemed to correlate (scaled of course) with what  has happened in similar human IF trials. Obviously they can't measure lifespan.

I'm kind of hoping someone will do a rat trial where they alternate periods of two hours of starvation and two or four hours of unlimited food.

Or better yet, a rat trial where they give the rats unlimited food for just ten minutes out of every two hours, to simulate the "one meal a day" method of paleo dieting.

Miscellaneous / Re: I just realised.
« on: January 13, 2010, 06:44:53 PM »
Are there ANY contraindications in eating any meats almost or totally raw? I don't really relish raw chicken but then I prefer lamb and beef big time!


1.  One can get trichinosis from infected pork unless it is cooked all the way though.  I've seen some sources that say trichinosis is rare in modern pork, but I personally play it safe since there's no good treatment for trichinosis.  I use a meat thermometer when cooking pork roasts to avoid cooking it too much and making it too dry.

2.  Meat surfaces can get contaminated with salmonella from processing machinery.  For steaks, searing the surfaces is sufficient; the inside can be rare/raw.  However, ground meats should ideally be cooked to at least medium well.  Or you can take your chances if you trust your immune system.

I have had a bite of medium rare pork by accident once and it was really good!  However, I'm too scared to have it on purpose.  I eat my steaks rare, and try to cook my beef roasts to be rare at the center.  I prefer rib roasts because part of the surface is bone, thus allowing a greater proportion of the meat to be rare inside.

Introductions / Re: Greetings all. How do I break my aversion to fish?
« on: January 13, 2010, 04:50:24 PM »
The 1 in 3 day fasted rats lived just as long as the calorie restricted rats, with a statistically insignificant amount of weight loss.

So if you want to live longer but not look like a stick figure, take every 3rd 24 hours off food.

Intermittent fasting is amazing.

The problem with that is that one day to a rat is like two weeks to a human.  To really duplicate what those rats do, you'd have to fast for two weeks straight out of every six.  That's certainly possible, but it's farther than I'd want to go!

Diet and nutrition / Re: Ethiopian food
« on: January 13, 2010, 04:43:00 PM »
How many oops meals shoudl you allow yourself.

 I think it's a bad idea ever to have an entire meal where one doesn't worry about whether it's paleo.  Contrary to Cordain's theory, "open meals" make the diet more difficult to stay on by being a possible starter for a "slippery slope".  Based on a number of cases from this forum, they're probably the biggest reason for people dropping off the paleo diet for months or years.

Paleo food is delicious - as long as you ignore Cordain's questionable advice to limit animal fats - and nonpaleo meals are not "treats", just "cheats".  A good paleo diet is not some horrible thing you have to go through to lose weight, that demands occasional respite; it's in fact much more delicious than a "standard American diet", and is the way we should want to eat all the time.

I never have a standard American meal.  I do once every week or two have a restaurant meal that may include a minimal amount of neolithic sauce or something, if I can't scrape the neolithic stuff off entirely.  At most restaurants, it's possible to find a meal that can be made paleo by refraining from eating the nonpaleo parts, so one really shouldn't ever need to eat an "open meal".

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