Author Topic: Thank you for the replies.  (Read 1864 times)

Offline sherihoff

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Thank you for the replies.
« on: June 15, 2010, 02:04:58 AM »
I am now moving toward the pH diet. Much to learn. Paleo was a great big baby step toward greater knowledge of how we eat and live. (Not to mention learning about government lies that promote the dairy and wheat industries to our demise - for SOMEONE'S profit.) Whatever diet I choose (given the food options available and the lifestyle I MUST live to pay the rent, I will allow myself flexibilty ("cheating") because something is better than nothing. A couple of slices of cucumber (high alkaline-forming to balance acid to help calcium absortion so my body doesn't suck calcium out of my bones to feed my blood) with breakfast, even though I drink too much beer sometimes, is better than not trying at all to keep myself as well as I can.

Offline Bearso

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Re: Thank you for the replies.
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2010, 08:44:56 PM »
I believe that "something" is better then nothing.  I personally have had GREAT success with this WOE.  I am not strict.  But I am what I call firm.  I stay as close to the farm as I can.  I still some drink diet soda, some beer and wine and even some scotch!  I "eat" NO GRAIN, dairy, legumes, tubers and most other banned foods.  I do eat nightshades.  I am trying to eat for health and change.  I do not care to replicate myself into a Caveman!  Emulate maybe but not become one.  I wish to become the best I can yet still live in the current world.  Smite me if you must be I think we all come here for our own reasons.  I am committed to mine.  I am approaching the best condition of my life and I am 56.7 so I got that going for me!  Go get what you need and live with your decision.
No expectations, no disappointments!

Offline samjohn

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Re: Thank you for the replies.
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2010, 10:14:48 PM »
I have yet to see any evidence whatsoever supporting the alkaline diet.
The answer to your question is 'eat more fat'.

Stop counting calories. If you are eating Paleo, there is usually no need.

If you are having weight loss issues, it'd be a good idea to start posting a detailed food journal, then everyone can help.

'Anecdotal Evidence' is an oxymoron.

Rolfdevinci

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Re: Thank you for the replies.
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2010, 02:24:39 AM »
Cant speak for the(actual) Alkaline diet but staying alkaline is part of my overall dietary scheme. I actually find it pretty simple to do on Paleo. At its common denominator it is just a matter of balancing acid forming foods(proteins) with alkaline forming ones(fruits and veggies).

I find the two WOE's complimentary to each other for the most part.

Offline ajmesa

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Re: Thank you for the replies.
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2010, 05:42:53 AM »
Cant speak for the(actual) Alkaline diet but staying alkaline is part of my overall dietary scheme. I actually find it pretty simple to do on Paleo. At its common denominator it is just a matter of balancing acid forming foods(proteins) with alkaline forming ones(fruits and veggies).

I find the two WOE's complimentary to each other for the most part.
Some paleo advocates will tell you that a paleo diet is alkaline yielding. Mine sure is.
Right Now.

Rolfdevinci

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Re: Thank you for the replies.
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2010, 02:05:23 PM »
Indeed. As is mine. Its all about balance. We are at our best when slightly alkaline. Here is a food chart.....

http://www.essense-of-life.com/moreinfo/foodcharts.htm

Tons of different ones out there in cyber land. Rather than get caught up in the numbers I just eat lots of alkalining foods to counter the acidic ash forming proteins.

Interestingly alot of what we dont eat on Paleo is also acid forming...ie; grains and dairy. Hence my comment the two WOEs are complimentary.

Steak and spinach........priceless! ;D

Offline samjohn

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Re: Thank you for the replies.
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2010, 04:22:31 PM »
Can anyone point me toward anything which shows that;

a. Food does change body pH
b. These changes have health consequences
The answer to your question is 'eat more fat'.

Stop counting calories. If you are eating Paleo, there is usually no need.

If you are having weight loss issues, it'd be a good idea to start posting a detailed food journal, then everyone can help.

'Anecdotal Evidence' is an oxymoron.

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Thank you for the replies.
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2010, 05:43:42 PM »
Can anyone point me toward anything which shows that;

a. Food does change body pH
b. These changes have health consequences

The following article indicates that dietary protein, which has acidic ash, can result in loss of calcium:

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/39/2/281

Note that body pH is not changed because the acid load from the protein is compensated for with calcium based buffering.

Although this article doesn't discuss it, grains also have acidic ash.  There's a link somewhere here to a table of foods with their pH effects.


Offline ajmesa

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Re: Thank you for the replies.
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2010, 07:18:43 PM »
Thanks for that link Warren, I was not aware of that study. I know that some people in the primal community don't believe in the acid balance, wonder what's their opinion about that study.

There's also the fact that Inuits, who mostly consume a acid yielding diet, had severe osteoporosis even at the young ages of 30. Here is a 5-part series from Don (Primal Wisdon) which goes over the role of PH in a paleo diet:

http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2010/02/paleo-diet-ph-and-eskimo-health-part-i.html
http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2010/03/paleo-diet-ph-does-it-matter-part-ii.html
http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2010/03/paleo-diet-ph-does-it-matter-part-iii.html
http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2010/03/paleo-diet-ph-side-note-i-dont-worship.html
http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2010/03/paleo-diet-ph-does-it-matter-part-v.html
http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2010/03/paleo-diet-ph-does-it-matter-part-vi.html

I think it's worth reading. There is also this table with more precise numbers:

http://www.thepaleodiet.com/nutritional_tools/acid.shtml

If you input your food into a fit day/cron-o-meter/etc you can just use this formula to calculate your PRAL:

pral =
0.49 * protein (g) +
0.037 * phosphorus (mg) -
0.021 * potassium (mg) -
0.026 * magnesium (mg) -
0.013 * calcium (mg)

Negative value is alkaline. Positive is acidic.
Right Now.

Offline samjohn

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Re: Thank you for the replies.
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2010, 10:32:16 PM »
If we take for true eating lots of meat is bad for calcium levels, and we add that to the fact that Paleo skeletons had great bones and great teeth, then does that not mean that the Paleo diet should not be mostly meat?
The answer to your question is 'eat more fat'.

Stop counting calories. If you are eating Paleo, there is usually no need.

If you are having weight loss issues, it'd be a good idea to start posting a detailed food journal, then everyone can help.

'Anecdotal Evidence' is an oxymoron.

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Thank you for the replies.
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2010, 06:02:43 AM »
I know that some people in the primal community don't believe in the acid balance, wonder what's their opinion about that study.

Well, among other things, someone posted a study here a while back indicating that protein from meat didn't have the same bad effect as protein from vegetable sources.  That could be why their personal experience is that one can safely ignore pH balance.

Also, other things, like sun exposure and vitamin D, may be even more important than pH balance in avoiding calcium loss.

Offline phrakture

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Re: Thank you for the replies.
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2010, 09:04:50 AM »
If we take for true eating lots of meat is bad for calcium levels, and we add that to the fact that Paleo skeletons had great bones and great teeth, then does that not mean that the Paleo diet should not be mostly meat?

Doesn't Warren's link indicate that the acid is from ash, though? That, to me, says that meat is fine, but cooking is not.



Offline gnujoshua

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Re: Thank you for the replies.
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2010, 10:05:59 AM »
If we take for true eating lots of meat is bad for calcium levels, and we add that to the fact that Paleo skeletons had great bones and great teeth, then does that not mean that the Paleo diet should not be mostly meat?

We don't really consume much natural animal based calcium in the modern world either. How often do SAD dieters consume bone or create bone stocks?
Diets fail because society as a whole believes body image is more important than health. The problem is that obesity is simply one of many symptoms of an illness, not the illness itself.

And I'm being cured.

Offline Woopy

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Re: Thank you for the replies.
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2010, 10:08:47 AM »
is eating chicken bone a source of calcium? can it be easily digested?

Offline phrakture

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Re: Thank you for the replies.
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2010, 10:16:54 AM »
is eating chicken bone a source of calcium? can it be easily digested?

Hmm, I imagine they would need to be broken up / chewed / smashed in order for us to digest them. Put a whole bone in acid and it will take a while to get through the outside. Just like a tooth.



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Re: Thank you for the replies.
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2010, 10:16:54 AM »