Author Topic: Paleolithic Europeans  (Read 15080 times)

marika

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2009, 04:54:58 AM »
Modern hominids could have been in Russia and the central plain of Eastern Europe as long ago as 40,000 years ago!

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/315/5809/223?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=Hoffecker&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT
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Radiocarbon and optically stimulated luminescence dating and magnetic stratigraphy indicate Upper Paleolithic occupation—probably representing modern humans—at archaeological sites on the Don River in Russia 45,000 to 42,000 years ago.

marika

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2009, 05:01:04 AM »
Early Paleos were very tall compared to Late Paleos and Mesos, possibly because of more protein!

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WJS-45FKRG0-28&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=85f58cde7dd7df67301ce680f83ac4fc

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Early Upper Paleolithic samples (pre-Glacial Maximum) are very tall; (2) Late Upper Paleolithic groups (post-Glacial Maximum) from Western Europe, compared to their ancestors, show a marked decrease in height; (3) a further, although not significant, reduction of stature affects Western Mesolithics; (4) no regional differences have been observed during both phases of the Upper Paleolithic; (5) a high level of homogeneity has also been found in the Mesolithic, both in Western and Eastern Europe....

Evaluation of possible causes for the great stature of the Early Upper Paleolithic samples points to high nutritional standards as the most important factor. Results obtained on later groups clearly indicate that the Last Glacial Maximum, rather than the Mesolithic transition, is the critical phase in the negative trend affecting Western European populations. While changes in the quality of the diet, and in particular decreased protein intake, provide a likely explanation for that trend....

marika

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2009, 05:09:54 AM »
Interesting collection of Upper Paleo fossil sites throughout the world:

http://www.originsnet.org/eraup.html

Side note; I was surprised to see Australia listed as far back as 59,000 years ago!

Offline kallyn

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2009, 07:12:32 AM »
My take on it is that mesolithic people were still hunter gatherers and still healthier than neolithic people, and also that the types of foods available to us now are much more similar to mesolithic foods than they are to paleolithic foods, so the mesolithic people provide a better model for me personally.  I'm not willing to live almost exclusively on aurochs, even if aurochs still existed.  We're all different though and I'm sure for other people the mesolithic model will not suit them and they'd rather go for the big game paleolithic model.
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Offline TWS

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2009, 07:33:25 AM »
The last doc I read about genetic testing, showed that there was no interbreeding with Neanderthals and they did not contribute to our makeup.

Perhaps they had sterile off-spring or a high infant mortality due to the crossbreeding? 
(I've also read that the Neanderthals contributed zero to our genetic pool.)

It's hard to believe they could co-exist for centuries and not have some, shall we say, 'contact'?

TWS

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2009, 09:19:53 AM »
The Mesolithic was quite different from the Paleolithic in terms of what foodstuffs were available. The big game such as mammoth was no longer available, so they had to resort to smalller game and perhaps had to become more reliant on plant matter. So I don't know - should we really not really consider the Mesolithic foods and concentrate only on the Paleolithic? (It's harder though, as there isn't as much fossil evidence!).

I don't think the mesolithic is in and of itself at all a good guide to the paleo diet, given the evolutionary reasoning behind the paleo diet.  The time scale for the mesolithic is still only a few tens of thousands of years, so there's still insufficient time to have adapted to foods newly adopted in the mesolithic, just as for the neolithic. 

I do agree there's a paucity of direct evidence for our diet during the paleolithic, so we're left guessing about things like whether vegetable and fruit intake was zero or merely low.  I do think that mesolithic diets can be used to inform those guesses - just as modern hunter gatherer diets can be - but I think we need to be careful to differentiate between foods which were eaten through both the paleolithic and the mesolithic but only left evidence in the latter, which would be paleo, and foods that were newly adopted in the mesolithic, which would not be.

marika

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2009, 06:54:30 AM »
I've adjusted my meat-only diet to be more Paleolithic European (since that's my ancestry). I've been posting about this in my journal and in the "Basically Meat-only" thread too. I've been eating meat, organ meats, rose hips, eggs, chestnuts, hazelnuts, mushrooms. I've been feeling great! I'll add in some wild berries when they are in season. This way of eating has made it very easy to get to my RDAs in everything too! Way easier than by trying to eat tons of fruit and veggies!

marika

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2009, 07:03:55 AM »
Rabbits are not necessarily "starvation" food. Apparently they were a good source of food in Late Upper Paleolithic Portugal:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WH8-45FC395-1S&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=125ecd7fda2f48af17590cfbf916f016

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...rabbit meat is as nutritionally balanced as deer meat, and considering that extra fat was extracted from the long bones of most of the carcasses consumed in the cave, rabbit was not a “starvation food”. Rabbit hunting provided the Late Upper Palaeolithic peoples of central Portugal with substantial calories, a relatively balanced diet of protein and fat, and several important minerals such as calcium.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2009, 07:06:24 AM by marika »

marika

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2009, 07:06:05 AM »
Definitely no dairy was eaten in Europe even as recently as 7,000 years ago:

http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/35862.html
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Milk wasn't on the Stone Age menu, says a new study which suggests the vast majority of adult Europeans were lactose intolerant as recently as 7,000 years ago.

marika

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2009, 07:27:41 AM »
We were originally mostly meat-eaters, shifting towards a more plant-based diet 15,000 years after the appearance of Homo sapiens.

http://www.serpentfd.org/humanevolution/a/paleolithic.html

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Based on the results of this analysis, nothing other than a constant proportion of meat versus vegetable material can be shown in the diets of humans throughout the time represented by these sites (70,000-35,000 years BP). It is possible that different foods were being collected even though there was no net change in the meat:vegetable proportions. The composition of the fauna, recovered from the three sites, however, suggests that there was no change in the kinds of fauna being exploited other than changing from one genus of large bodied herbivore to another (Garrod and Bate, 1937, Bouchud, 1974)."

"The distributions of strontium and stronum:calcium ratios from the two late phase pipaleolithic sites (Kebara B and el-Wad which date to around 10,000 years BP), compared with all the earlier sites, however, suggest that a major dietary change occurred between early and late phases of the Epipaleolithic....the major dietary shift occurred some 15,000 years after the major morphological shift had been completed....the change in subsistence activities related to dietary components occurred long after the change in skeletal robustness from archaic to modern Homo sapiens. In fact, the shift toward greater dependence on plant products, occurred some 15,000 years after the first appearance of fully modern Homo sapiens."

marika

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2009, 07:30:25 AM »
Did Europeans acquire white skin as recently as 6,000 years ago?

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-original-africans-of-europe-by-ogu-eji-ofo-annu/
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...a new report on the evolution of a gene for skin color suggested that Europeans acquired pale skin quite recently, perhaps only 6000 to 12,000 years ago.

In 2005, researchers linked the paleness of the modern European skin to a mutation in gene SLC 24A5.

The mutation gene must have spread gradually (as often occurs with new mutation) from that time but it surely would have taken another two or three thousand years down the line before it would become the dominant European profile. That makes it just three thousand years ago.

If this is correct, it means that our Paleolithic European ancestors were dark-skinned until very recently, and hence, probably did not get much vitamin D from the limited sunshine in those northern latitudes!

More from that site:

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Those studies suggest that a primitive, stone-age human came to Europe, probably from Central Asia and the Middle East, in two waves of migration beginning about 35,000 years ago.

Their numbers were small and they lived by hunting animals and gathering plant food. They used crudely sharpened stones and fire.

“About 24,000 years ago, the last ice age began, with mountain-sized glaciers moving across most of Europe.

The Paleolithic Europeans retreated before the ice, finding refuge for hundreds of generations in three areas: what is now Spain, the Balkans and the Ukraine.

“When the glaciers melted, about 16,000 years ago, the Paleolithic tribes resettled the rest of Europe. Y chromosome mutations occurred among people in each of the ice age refuges.

About 8,000 years ago a more advanced people, the Neolithic, migrated to Europe from the Middle East, bringing with them a new Y chromosome pattern and a new way of life – agriculture. About 20 percent of Europeans now have the Y chromosome pattern from this migration.

More on the skin color change (in the comments section):

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The data suggest that the selective sweep occurred 5300 to 6000 years ago, but given the imprecision of method, the real date could be as far back as 12,000 years ago, Norton said. She added that other, unknown, genes probably also cause paling in Europeans...Either way, the implication is that our European ancestors were brown-skinned for tens of thousands of years—a suggestion made 30 years ago by Stanford University geneticist L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza. He argued that the early immigrants to Europe, who were hunter-gatherers, herders, and fishers, survived on ready-made sources of vitamin D in their diet. But when farming spread in the past 6000 years, he argued, Europeans had fewer sources of vitamin D in their food and needed to absorb more sunlight to produce the vitamin in their skin.

So because of agriculture and hence less vitamin D-dense food, perhaps, the mutation developed for lighter skin to get more vitamin D from the sun!
« Last Edit: December 06, 2009, 07:44:09 AM by marika »

marika

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2009, 08:00:39 AM »
Some of the info from this site doesn't correspond with other info I've found:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/W7336T/W7336T03.HTM

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Long before the adoption of agriculture and a settled mode of existence, waves of humans left East Africa and populated higher latitudes. Since, with the exception of oily fish, available foods did not provide significant quantities of vitamin D, these populations lost most or all of their skin pigmentation and thereby improved their production of vitamin D to compensate for the lower solar UV radiation at the higher latitudes.

But that doesn't correspond with the site above which showed that skin pigmentation didn't change until much more recently.

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Calcium, by contrast, would still have been abundant in the food of hunter-gatherer nomads in Europe and Asia. Leafy greens, nuts, roots, tubers and the other foods in a typical hunter-gatherer's diet tend to be quite calcium rich. Indeed, the annual rack of antlers produced by deer species in northern latitudes is testimony to the environmental abundance of calcium.

The paleolithic high calcium intake probably prevailed for the human race as long as humans followed a hunter-gatherer economy, that is until about 10000 BC in the Fertile Crescent and until perhaps no more than 2 000 to 3 000 years ago in the Western Hemisphere.

But it seems in my previous postings, that the Paleolithic intake of greens was most likely rather limited. Plus, the wild greens that were available to them have their calcium bound up in oxalates, which is not very absorbable at all. And what roots and tubers are high in calcium? I don't know of any. I know that rutabaga and acorn squash have some, but it's very little. (45mg per 100g). Nuts have some calcium, but once again it's very little (hazelnuts were most available to Paleolithic Europeans, and they have very little calcium, and apparently are high in oxalates). Almonds have more, but it's bound up in oxalates too. If they actually had all that calcium from oxalates, they would have had problems with kidney stones. Did Paleos get lots of kidney stones??
« Last Edit: December 06, 2009, 08:29:29 AM by marika »

marika

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2009, 05:25:59 AM »
I wish I could get my hands on this article, it sounds very informative!

http://books.google.com/books?id=8HV0AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA722&lpg=PA722&dq=paleolithic+europe+buckwheat&source=bl&ots=ckCGOWM8P8&sig=xd2D9LfCgL9EdaImKavx_AOVyBY&hl=en&ei=4PQgS-eIIcqpnQf75KDiCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CB0Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=paleolithic%20europe%20buckwheat&f=false

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Much (M.) Vorgeschichtliche Nahrund Nutzpflanzen Europas. (Mitt. d. Anthrop. Ges. in Wien, 1908, XXXVIII, 195-227, 2 fgs.) Discusses the prehistoric food and economic plants of Europe, their culture-historic age, origin, etc....

marika

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2009, 08:35:21 AM »
Some interesting tidbits on Paleolithic Poland. Apparently meat was largely the diet, with mammoth and reindeer on the menu:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone-Age_Poland
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Upper Paleolithic people specialized in organized, group hunting of large mammals; they sometimes pursued and drove into traps entire herds. Their nutritional needs were met largely by meat consumption, as the vegetation was limited to tundra and steppe and the land was covered by ice and snow (Vistula final glaciation) for long periods....In a cave near Nowy Targ (East-Gravettian culture), a 30,000 years old, world's oldest boomerang was found. It is a crescent-shaped 70 cm long object with fine finish, made of mammoth tusk. Mammoths were hunted in Kraków area during 25,000-20,000 BCE.[5

Looks like they may have baked their meat:

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A 12,600 BCE Hamburg culture site with tents, camp-fire and stone meat baking devices was discovered in Olbrachcice, Wschowa County.[3][9][10]

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Rydno is a complex of archeological sites along the Kamiennna River valley between Skarżysko-Kamienna and Wąchock. Several hundred Paleolithic campsites have been located there, which makes it the world's largest accumulation of such finds. They extend over a number of periods, beginning with the Mousterian (Neanderthal) culture, followed by the Hamburg culture of reindeer hunters....
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 08:37:26 AM by marika »

marika

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2009, 08:41:11 AM »
More on stone-age Europe...apparently there were two basic "provinces", delineated by culture:

http://www.publicanthropology.org/Archive/Aa1944.htm
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This article provides a review of previous archaeological studies of Stone Age Magdalenian culture in pre-war Poland, a territorial expanse that included large tracts of present-day Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine....The Late Swiderian closes the Upper Paleolithic Period in Poland. Different researchers have concluded that the autochthonous Polish Swiderian culture presents a dividing line between two separate European cultural provinces. These provinces are the Northwest European, embracing Belgium, Holland, northwest Germany, Denmark and Norway and the Middle East European, embracing Silesia, Brandenburgia, Poland, Lithuania, White Russia, Central Russia, Ukraine and the Crimea. The latter is centered on the Nowy Mlyn site in Poland.

Here's a map showing the Swiderian culture's boundaries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiderian_culture
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 08:47:36 AM by marika »

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Re: Paleolithic Europeans
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2009, 08:41:11 AM »