Author Topic: Liver flushing  (Read 21815 times)

Offline Warren Dew

  • Global Moderator
  • General
  • ****
  • Posts: 5746
  • Karma: 370
    • View Profile
It is probably inaccurate to refer to them as gallstones, as evidenced by the two links I posted earlier.

1. Because so many can appear, in repeated flushes in a short time period.

2. Because upon investigation they were no such thing.

I am open to these flushes having some kind of effect, but it won't be via ejecting gallstones. There are more than a few stories out there of people who actually were diagnosed with gallstones, did multiple flushes with lots of little 'stones' coming out, and upon investigation finding their gallstones were still there.

While most flush proponents probably suffer from confirmation bias, I think your links also suffer from confirmation bias in the opposite direction.  Certainly they seem to use a lot of ridicule and other useless verbiage with only a little actual evidence and logic.

With regard to the two points you mention, which are about the only things I can find supported by evidence in those links:

1.  I'd certainly agree that some of the stuff that comes out in these flushes isn't gallstones, and their characterization as gallstones is the result of confirmation bias in the opposite direction on the part of those who do flushes.  Obviously if the total volume of what comes out is larger than the gall bladder, they aren't - or aren't all - gallstones.  However, I'd caution against judging on the basis of number alone, rather than total volume.  On my first flush, dozens of hard, dark green stones came out, but they were small, with the largest maybe 1/4" across.  The total volume was probably no more than 2-3cc.

2.  The single case that was investigated in detail didn't involve a proper flush.  The oil and lemon juice was consumed "over several hours", while the flush instructions I've seen emphasize drinking it all at once.  That the flush wasn't performed properly is confirmed by the fact that the results in that case - which I agree don't seem to have been gallstones - were passed "painlessly"; I can vouch for the fact that a proper flush will result in quite a bit of pain.

I'm not going to argue that a flush necessarily clears the gall bladder entirely; it solved my problems with gall bladder pain, but gallstones can exist without the pain, so who knows whether some gallstones might remain behind as well.  I do think they were gallstones based on the fact that my gall bladder pain went away with the flush and because of my stones' close resemblance to gallstones like those on the right half of this picture:



Edit:  none of this means I give it any credence as a cancer cure.  I'll also note that lots of people these days would choose painless outpatient laparoscopic surgery taking only a couple hours over a multiday flush procedure that involves a lot of pain.  The people who would try the flush are probably those who (a) really don't want to lose part of their body even if medical experts deem it "useless", or (b) really prefer to avoid surgery or medical interventions even at the cost of a lot of pain, similar to people who opt for natural childbirths over caesarians or epidurals.

Oh, and for my own reference, a link to a paper on whether gallstones float:

http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/reprint/146/1/49.pdf
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 09:27:58 PM by Warren Dew »

Offline goodsamaritan

  • General
  • ****
  • Posts: 1506
  • Karma: 59
  • I'm on Raw Paleo
    • View Profile
    • Cure Manual
Liver flushes are quite painless.
In the 20+ times I liver flushed there was no pain.
And none of my relatives and friends experienced any pain.
From the extreme like my then 7 year old boy, to my 81 year old grandma, to my 98 year old grandpa.

My then dying psoriatic brother experienced colon re-absorption of poisonous black liver stones and until I forced fed him some epsom salts to eject the poison stones fast... he was crying out that he was going to die.  But when he ejected some 150 poison black stones, he immediately felt relief.

These cases and other cancer cases which have dangerous poisons stored in their livers need to do coffee enemas instead.  You need to escort out the poison dirt fast instead of the few long hours of liver flushing, which may lead to colon reabsorption.  With coffee enemas the liver opens up to the herb coffee concoction and dumps its contents there with the coffee... then upon dumping in the toilet, all the liver poisons are escorted out.  That is why the egg yolk liver flush suggests a warm water enema after 2 hours.

You can smell the poison smell of liver excretion... it smells like the worst sewer you can imagine.  That is why those terminally ill people are sick, they have sewer like poisons in their liver.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 06:35:02 AM by goodsamaritan »


Bikhlejser

  • Guest
Re: Liver flushing
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2010, 06:50:12 PM »

Offline Warren Dew

  • Global Moderator
  • General
  • ****
  • Posts: 5746
  • Karma: 370
    • View Profile
Re: Liver flushing
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2010, 07:11:28 PM »
Or .....

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/flushes.html

Wasn't that link already posted and addressed in the first page of this thread?

Bikhlejser

  • Guest
Re: Liver flushing
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2010, 07:27:21 PM »
LOL, probably by me.  If so, I just came across it again as a co-worker is doing a liver flush right now.


Offline sparrow

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 625
  • Karma: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Liver flushing
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2010, 10:24:23 AM »
Quackwatch kind of annoys me.  I like the idea of the site (a healthy dose of skepticism is a very good thing), but in some articles, it looks as mindlessly biased against whatever holistic thing they're writing about, as many of the "quacks" are about conventional medicine.  Either way, flinging claims of fraud around gets on my nerves.

I do think they have some valid points with the liver flush article.

Offline Warren Dew

  • Global Moderator
  • General
  • ****
  • Posts: 5746
  • Karma: 370
    • View Profile
Re: Liver flushing
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2010, 10:40:04 AM »
I like the idea of the site (a healthy dose of skepticism is a very good thing), but in some articles, it looks as mindlessly biased against whatever holistic thing they're writing about, as many of the "quacks" are about conventional medicine.

That's it exactly.  They're appropriately skeptical about the holistic stuff, but then they fail to be skeptical at all about the conventional viewpoint.

That shows in the liver flush article, where they show appropriate skepticism about some of the claims, but then rely on anecdotal evidence that's even weaker than the stuff the flush advocates cite.

Offline samjohn

  • Global Moderator
  • General
  • ****
  • Posts: 2563
  • Karma: 154
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Liver flushing
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2010, 04:26:23 PM »
That shows in the liver flush article, where they show appropriate skepticism about some of the claims, but then rely on anecdotal evidence that's even weaker than the stuff the flush advocates cite.

Same thing with the homeopathy ones, a mix of good critical thinking and what I think are some major weak points that undercut their case.  "It doesn't work because it can't work," seems to be the theme.  Since we're constantly making new discoveries about how things work, that alone won't convince me that a treatment isn't worthwhile. 

For example, seizure meds can be very effective in treating bipolar disorder.  Why?  Last time I checked (about a year ago), they weren't really sure.  Does that mean that psychiatrists should stop prescribing this highly effective and, in many cases, life-saving medication?

I'd forgotten about this thread. Have to reply in detail later, but one point needs answering.

Homeopathy has failed in every single properly run study and trial run on it, failed completely. Failed to show any effect above placebo. Your example has zero relation to discussing homeopathic medicine.

Offline goodsamaritan

  • General
  • ****
  • Posts: 1506
  • Karma: 59
  • I'm on Raw Paleo
    • View Profile
    • Cure Manual
Re: Liver flushing
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2010, 09:54:24 PM »


Egg yolk liver flushing in pictures + detailed procedures.  Updated for Nov 2010.

http://www.curemanual.com/detox-protocols-and-treatments/liver-gall-bladder-flush/edwins-egg-yolk-liver-flushing/

Currently this egg yolk liver flushing is helping my friend heal from retinal detachment surgery along with a raw paleo diet http://vitrectomydiary.wordpress.com/

Not only is his eye healing on schedule, but his rough skin is now smooth, his back acne is gone, his hemorrhoids are healed, his back aches are gone.  I call this healing buy 1 take all.

When he goes back to work and goes on frequent travel, I suggested he do cooked paleo diet when on travel and in socials.

« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 09:59:45 PM by goodsamaritan »

Offline sparrow

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 625
  • Karma: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Liver flushing
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2010, 06:03:37 PM »
Homeopathy has failed in every single properly run study and trial run on it, failed completely. Failed to show any effect above placebo. Your example has zero relation to discussing homeopathic medicine.

Rereading my post, it had multiple problems, and I'm really wishing I'd kept my mouth shut.  :-\ Sleep deprived posting is never a good move.

I highly doubt we'll ever see a double-blind controlled study of homeopathy that shows anything beyond a placebo.  The explanation given by proponents of homeopathy is that since the appropriate remedy is selected based on the individual's unique symptoms, treating a group of individuals with a particular remedy won't get results.

My personal thoughts on it are that either it is a placebo (the more likely explanation) and/or that there isn't a way to study it in the way that needs to be done for things like FDA approval to happen, so it might as well be a placebo.  It won't stop me from using it on myself or my pets for some things, but I'm not going to even try to say that there is solid science to back it up.

Offline samjohn

  • Global Moderator
  • General
  • ****
  • Posts: 2563
  • Karma: 154
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Liver flushing
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2011, 10:44:03 PM »
What kind of liver flush did you do WarrenDew?

Offline Warren Dew

  • Global Moderator
  • General
  • ****
  • Posts: 5746
  • Karma: 370
    • View Profile
Re: Gallstone flush
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2011, 06:36:47 AM »
Samjohn, I basically followed this protocol, skipping all optional steps:

http://www.curezone.com/cleanse/liver/kelley.asp

I did read a couple of the other procedures on that site, like Hulda Clark's.  The differences between what I did and the one at the above link were:

I also went on a 24 hour juice fast before the flush, rather than just stopping eating the day of the flush.  On paleo, I would go on a 24 hour water fast instead.  [edit:  on thinking about the fact that a low, acidic pH will help dissolve the cholesterol that is a component of the stones, I'd still use some sort of acidic juice.]

The epsom salts are important to clear out everything in the intestines first; I may have used more drinks of epsom salts.  I remember that the stuff coming out was pretty close to clear water by the time of the flush.

I mixed the olive oil and lemon juice before drinking it, instead of drinking sequentially.

The second time I did the flush, I didn't do the 24 hour fast and I was lazier with the epsom salts.  The stuff that came out was coated in the regular brown color that you'd normally expect, rather than being shiny dark green chunks.  That's why I'd recommend the fast and epsom salts.  Also, a lot less came out the second time, so I figured I didn't need to repeat it again.

I made sure to eat some citrus for months afterwards to maintain intestinal pH on the theory that that would prevent more gallstones; I didn't get a recurrence, though that proves nothing.  Then I went on the paleo diet, on which I suspect the fruit plus the lack of starchy foods prevents gallstones by maintaining a better intestinal pH.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 01:33:52 AM by Warren Dew »

Offline josephwinner

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Liver flushing
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2016, 10:18:53 PM »
Uncertain about precisely what you're looking for, before acquiring any medicine or herbs you must consult a physician. For more information or even to become knowledgeable you can go through some great sites like LiveStrong etc ... also you may get a free ebook on liver cleanse here http://www.livercleansetruth.com/

Offline PaleoDavid

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 138
  • Karma: 6
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Liver flushing
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2016, 06:34:28 AM »
 ;)

Offline BobbyT

  • Private
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Liver flushing
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2016, 09:13:33 AM »
I am very confused on the importance of flushing your liver, is it something to do when your sick , or is it something to do on a regular basis? Anyone who has tried it does it truly make you feel better or is it more of a placebo effect?