Author Topic: A good argument for supplementing  (Read 2760 times)

Offline Sematary

  • Private
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
A good argument for supplementing
« on: March 27, 2011, 11:40:00 AM »
Here is my argument. Paleolithic man didn't have the pollution of the air, sea and land that we have today. He got more than sufficient sun (hence, plenty of Vitamin D) - something we don't and can't get enough of because of the depletion of the ozone layer. The land has been destroyed by chemicals and heavy minerals and depleted of it's nutrients so that the food that IS produced on it doesn't have the same nutrient density that it did then. Paleolithic man got Omega 3's from fish. You can't eat the fish any more. It's toxic. If you ate the amount of fish necessary to keep your omega 3 levels where they should be you would die from mercury poisoning. The assault on our bodies from pollutants of all types via air, water and food is such that we need EXTRA anti-oxidants to combat the damage caused to our cells by these external forces.

In short - we don't live in the paleolithic era. Our planet is less hospitable to our species than it was then thanks to our own stupidity and we have to deal with that. The meat they ate was more lean. The vegetables and fruits they ate were more nutrient dense and didn't contain chemicals. Even "organic" foods are "allowed" by the FDA to contain certain amounts of chemicals, which is plain ridiculous but it's probably a concession to the fact that there are no places left on this planet that haven't been affected by industrialized society.

So, my argument is, that we cannot receive the same level of nutrition from the same foods that were eaten millions of years ago because our species has polluted the planet to a point where that is impossible and the only way to make up for what was lost is to supplement to get what we can't eat.

Offline Warren Dew

  • Global Moderator
  • General
  • ****
  • Posts: 4564
  • Karma: 333
    • View Profile
Re: A good argument for supplementing
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2011, 06:37:04 AM »
The mercury risk in fish is overstated; even kids could safely get all their calories from wild alaskan salmon, which would provide more than adequate omega 3s.  The same argument applies to your other concerns.  Even using vitamin D supplements instead of getting sun is a specific case of voluntarily not having a completely paleo lifestyle and supplementing to make up the lack; it's not a case of absolutely needing supplements.

No question there are some pollutants that are recent, but supplements can't remove that stuff.

Offline kyleen66

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 359
  • Karma: 19
    • View Profile
Re: A good argument for supplementing
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2011, 07:33:57 AM »
I take supplements- but most are on the recommendation of my doctor based on my blood work. If you need to, you should. But it never hurts to make certain you need them before you start.

Offline GinaG

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • Karma: 7
  • Old Cavewoman-still kicking!
    • View Profile
    • Lone Wolf Mini Creations
    • Email
Re: A good argument for supplementing
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2011, 08:10:52 AM »
I'm sorry, but I think the doctors are all owned by the pill making people.  All they will do when you go to see them is to prescribe pills.  I only see a doctor in case of emergency now.  I haven't really been to see a doctor in about 6 years and I'm happy with that.  Yes, the ER and emergency surgury, but that is it.  I don't trust doctors who say you need this and that, and let you go home.  I've seen the results of this - the nursing homes are full of people chock full of pills they probably don't need.  My own sister is a real fruitcake and runs to her doctor with the slightestl ittle thing.  Purse full of pill, medicine cabinet full of pills.  I just think it's all for the $$$$$ and supplements and pills are mostly made of sugar.

I think mammograms and pap smears are overrated too.  I haven't had any of those for about 10 years now.  And me a cancer survivor - uterine cancer.



Am I crazy?  I don't think so!
Crazy Old Cavewoman

Offline kyleen66

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 359
  • Karma: 19
    • View Profile
Re: A good argument for supplementing
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 08:24:57 AM »
Am I crazy?  I don't think so!

I don't think you're crazy at all Gina. But it's got to be a personal choice on what one believes is best for their own health. I have multiple sclerosis and a small host of other autoimmune disorders. I've had to be on a cane before. I've had fatigue so bad that I could only make it through half a work day. I've had the shakes so bad that I coudln't drink from a glass for weeks. I have a sever hearing loss that offers it's own challenges. I've had my knees so bad that I couldn't get up the stairs.

I changed my diet, I feel good, and I'm making progress. But if I don't take say the B12's, I can't get through the afternoon without a two hour nap. My Vit D levels were under 20 last time they were checked which is INSANE low.

You have to be your own health advocate and tell you doctor what your willing to do and not do. But when I have a serious potentially debilitating disease, I'm willing to do just about anything to make sure I can stay active and a productive member of society.

Each person has to decide what is going to be best for them. You have to be open minded and try other things. But to just say "you don't need that" when you've never walked in their shoes really isn't reasonable.

Offline Sematary

  • Private
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: A good argument for supplementing
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 09:11:20 AM »
You nailed it. You have to be your own health advocate. I see my doctor every year for a general checkup but outside of that I do my own research and request my own tests for things like vitamin D levels, cholesterol, inflammation markers, etc...
I'm coming up on my 50th birthday and I
Want to remain this healthy for at
Least another 50 which will require vigilance on my part. I don't allow my physician to make my health choices but part of being vigilant is using medical doctors and their tests to keep abreast of my health.

Offline goodsamaritan

  • General
  • ****
  • Posts: 1435
  • Karma: 55
  • I'm on Raw Paleo
    • View Profile
    • Cure Manual
Re: A good argument for supplementing
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 03:08:24 PM »
If you eat a mostly cooked diet and do not eat raw organs nor raw fat, you may need supplementation.

Ever heard of Dr. Ron's Organs, or Lyprinol... raw organs and raw fats...

I'll eat real raw organs and real raw fat, but for some people, it's just too disgusting.  They like taking commercial supplements in capsules.  I say, do what works for you.

See me and a hot chick eat raw liver:
http://www.curemanual.com/2011/03/cancer-cure-diet-video-demonstrations-of-how-to-eat-raw-liver/

And eating raw bone marrow

http://www.curemanual.com/2011/03/cancer-cure-diet-how-to-eat-raw-bone-marrow-demonstration-video/

If you don't see yourself doing these possibly disgusting eating patterns, then take the commercial supplement route.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 06:02:15 PM by goodsamaritan »
I'm on Raw Paleo diet but I have kids to feed on cooked paleo diet.
My Health Blog, My Paleo Diet Blog
Born, raised and living in the Philippines

Offline goodsamaritan

  • General
  • ****
  • Posts: 1435
  • Karma: 55
  • I'm on Raw Paleo
    • View Profile
    • Cure Manual
Re: A good argument for supplementing
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 06:56:14 PM »
I have access to really fresh and clean fish and sea food that can be eaten raw.
Just luck I guess.
I'm on Raw Paleo diet but I have kids to feed on cooked paleo diet.
My Health Blog, My Paleo Diet Blog
Born, raised and living in the Philippines

Offline GinaG

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • Karma: 7
  • Old Cavewoman-still kicking!
    • View Profile
    • Lone Wolf Mini Creations
    • Email
Re: A good argument for supplementing
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2011, 07:28:09 PM »
I couldn't go the raw way.  Raw burger yes, but not anything else.  I guess I'm just a chicken.  And I love my chicken cooked, along with my fish, etc.  While I live in the wilderness here in Montana, I would still rather cook my food.  It's interesting though.  I admire your courage to do that, and yes I did watch your videos of you enjoying your rawness.....it's just not for me.  I bake, broil, bbq, boil, fry and rotessirie, but I cannot set down to a plate with a raw leg on it.  Sorry. 

And bugs are out too!  You should see our pine beetles here, I'm sure they would make someone a tasty meal, but again, not for me.
Crazy Old Cavewoman

Offline samjohn

  • Global Moderator
  • General
  • ****
  • Posts: 2481
  • Karma: 150
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: A good argument for supplementing
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2011, 08:27:13 PM »
I think mammograms and pap smears are overrated too.  I haven't had any of those for about 10 years now.  And me a cancer survivor - uterine cancer.

Am I crazy?  I don't think so!

Yes you are crazy. Mammograms and pap smears are for detection, not prevention. All you are doing is increasing the chances that a  problem will go undetected far far longer, until actual symptoms are showing, at which point it will almost certainly be too late to treat effectively.

As to the rest of your anti doctor rant, I'm just going to ignore it as replying to such silliness would probably make me lose my temper.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 08:41:10 PM by samjohn »
The answer to your question is 'eat more fat'.

Stop counting calories. If you are eating Paleo, there is usually no need.

If you are having weight loss issues, it'd be a good idea to start posting a detailed food journal, then everyone can help.

'Anecdotal Evidence' is an oxymoron.

Offline GinaG

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • Karma: 7
  • Old Cavewoman-still kicking!
    • View Profile
    • Lone Wolf Mini Creations
    • Email
Re: A good argument for supplementing
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2011, 10:16:04 AM »
Relax.  At 70 I figure I've lived a good long life.  If I live longer, that is good.  And if I don't, oh well.  I've been married, have two lovely children both married which means I also have 7 grandchildren.  I live a happy life.  I am very content.

Several things I do not have any more however since starting this diet:

1.  No more heartburn - hence no more taking acid controllers.
2.  No more leg cramps at night.
3.  No more hot flashes.
4.  Hair looks better, skin looks better, nails growing strong again.

I figure these benefits are fantastic!  But I still don't like doctors! 
Crazy Old Cavewoman

Offline izzyk

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: 4
    • View Profile
Re: A good argument for supplementing
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2011, 10:18:22 AM »
I think mammograms and pap smears are overrated too.  I haven't had any of those for about 10 years now.  And me a cancer survivor - uterine cancer.

Am I crazy?  I don't think so!

Yes you are crazy.

I don't think you are crazy at all.

Actually there's quite a lot of evidence that the radiation from mammograms and some other tests actually increase the risks of developing cancer quite significantly. I also believe that many cancers start to develop all the time but our immune systems get rid of them. By detecting them at a very early stage you may at best be subjecting yourself to stress and unpleasant and dangerous treatments for nothing and at worst spread the cancer through surgery and radiation.

Reduce stress, eat well and exert yourself physically will probably do you a lot more good than going to the doctor. However, you shouldn't underestimate those sugar pills. The placebo effect is amazing. :D

Offline samjohn

  • Global Moderator
  • General
  • ****
  • Posts: 2481
  • Karma: 150
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: A good argument for supplementing
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2011, 05:59:21 PM »
I don't think you are crazy at all.

Actually there's quite a lot of evidence that the radiation from mammograms and some other tests actually increase the risks of developing cancer quite significantly. I also believe that many cancers start to develop all the time but our immune systems get rid of them. By detecting them at a very early stage you may at best be subjecting yourself to stress and unpleasant and dangerous treatments for nothing and at worst spread the cancer through surgery and radiation.

The mammograms = more breast cancer study is actually one I use quite a lot to demonstrate why correlation does not equal causation. Women with a history of breast cancer, get more mammograms. Simple.

Ok... Cancer is uncontrolled growth, if your immune system gets rid of it, it is not a cancer.

Survival rates for all sorts of cancers have increased dramatically over the past 10 years, due to better treatment AND early detection.

Quote
By detecting them at a very early stage you may at best be subjecting yourself to stress and unpleasant and dangerous treatments for nothing

That is really not a very sensible statement, and millions of cancer survivors are proof of that.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 06:17:52 PM by samjohn »
The answer to your question is 'eat more fat'.

Stop counting calories. If you are eating Paleo, there is usually no need.

If you are having weight loss issues, it'd be a good idea to start posting a detailed food journal, then everyone can help.

'Anecdotal Evidence' is an oxymoron.

Oodar

  • Guest
Re: A good argument for supplementing
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2011, 02:24:00 PM »
Survival rates for all sorts of cancers have increased dramatically over the past 10 years, due to better treatment AND early detection.


True. As much as I despise our medical system with bias, there has been progress made in treatment of diseases. I'll admit it is not a giant conspiracy.

That being said, over-testing for anything is if anything more money in someone's pockets and a waste of time. At worst, it is increasing your cancer risk if it's utilizing x-rays, etc.

It does happen as it's a profit motive industry just like everything is. That is part of why we have better cancer treatment success and more red tape...

CAVEMANforum - The most popular Paleo diet and caveman exercise discussion site

Re: A good argument for supplementing
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2011, 02:24:00 PM »