Author Topic: Calcium  (Read 21220 times)

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #150 on: August 13, 2009, 05:17:29 AM »
Aha - here's the study I heard about this morning!

http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/S0899-9007(09)00136-1/abstract
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The greater bone density found in women beer drinkers might be a result of the phytoestrogen content of this alcoholic drink; this requires further investigation.

Unfortunately it requires a password to read the full study.

Here's an article with more info on the study:

http://www.miller-mccune.com/news/beer-helps-build-strong-bones-1422
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They found habitual beer drinkers had higher bone density than habitual wine drinkers or teetotalers. This discovery, they write, suggests that “other beer components besides alcohol” are likely at play.

While it’s unclear exactly what those components are, the researchers point to beer’s “phytoestrogen content.” (Funny – that never gets mentioned in those high-testosterone television ads during sporting events.) It turns out beer contains two phytoestrogens, apparently because “the female flowers of the hop plant have long been used as a preservative and flavoring agent.” Previous research has suggested these compounds have “a protective effect on bone.”

“Beer is also a major source of silicon,” the researchers add. “It has been demonstrated that dietary silicon intake may have salutary effects on skeletal health, especially cortical bone health in premenopausal women.”

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #151 on: August 13, 2009, 05:20:48 AM »
I just looked up food sources of silicon:

Quote
Food Sources of Silicon:

    *Beer
    *Beets
    *Bell peppers
    *Brown rice
    *Leafy green vegetables
    *Root vegetables
    *Seafood
    *Soybeans
    *Whole grains

I've bolded the Paleo sources. This is exciting! I do get plenty of leafy green veggies, so I'd assume my silicon levels are good? But how to know for sure?

Here's another site, with a different list:

Quote
Silicon Rich Food Sources
The main food sources of silicon are apples, oranges, cherries, raisins, almonds, peanuts, raw cabbage, onions, endives, carrots, eggplants, pumpkin, red beets, celery, cucumber, fish, honey, and corn. An increased need for silicon is best met by increasing the consumption of whole grains, because they are rich sources of absorbable silicon.

Silicon Deficiency Symptoms

Deficiency of silicon in animals causes retarded growth and abnormal bone development. A deficiency in human beings can lead to soft brittle nails, ageing symptoms of the skin such as wrinkles, thinning or loss of hair, poor bone development, osteoporosis(a condition of brittle bones caused by hormonal changes or lack of calcium or vitamin D). The chief symptom of silicon deficiency is sensitiveness to cold: one always feels cold e

Hmmmm...did you see above that whole grains are rich sources of absorbable silicon? Are we doing ourselves a disservice then by NOT eating whole grains?

Here's another site that also mentions the importance of whole grains for silicon:

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Good food sources of silicon include cereals, apples, oranges, cherries, raisins, almonds, peanuts, raw cabbage, onions, carrots, brinjal, pumpkin, cucumber, fish, honey, oats, unrefined grains/cereals with high fibre content, nuts and seeds.

An increased need for silicon is best fulfilled by increasing the consumption of whole grains, because they are rich sources of easily absorbable silicon.

Most of the silicon that is consumed from the diet is mostly in the form of alumino-silicate and silica, and is therefore not bio-available.

However, most silicon found in diets as aluminosilicate and silica is not absorbable or available as sodium metasilicate. Additionally, factors such as ageing and low estrogen levels apparently decrease the body’s ability to absorb silicon. Thus, the recommended intake of silicon is around 5 to 10 mg/day in a healthy adult.

So should I start drinking beer or eating whole grains for bone health??? :o
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 05:28:31 AM by marika »

Posy

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #152 on: August 13, 2009, 06:28:08 AM »
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So should I start drinking beer or eating whole grains for bone health???

Well you can if you want…I don’t think you’ll talk anyone around here in to drinking beer and milk or eating cheese and grains for bone health (or any other health reason) though lol! :P 

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #153 on: August 13, 2009, 06:48:47 AM »
Well, I'm of course hoping to find Paleo alternatives for all of these things! :D

Here's an interesting article I just found on silicon:

http://www.victorynutrition.com/hpages/ref_docs/orthosil.html
Quote
According to most paleoanthropologists, modern humans developed in Africa between 100,000 and 300,000 years ago, then spread throughout the world.1 During those last 100,000 years, experts believe that human biology didn't evolve significantly. Consequently, they argue, our nutritional needs are dictated more by what our hunter-gatherer ancestors ate than by the foods we eat today.2

Some of our ancestors' foods are noticeably lacking in modern diets--namely, internal organs, bone marrow, skin, tendons, cartilage, bony fish and fibrous plants.3 In contrast to today's average diet, those foods are relatively rich in various nutrients including silicon (Si), an essential trace element researchers think is important to normal bone and connective tissue development. To make matters worse, modern food processing techniques strip our few remaining silicon-containing foods such as grains and rice of nearly all their silicon content--and the health benefits silicon provides.

if silica is extracted from herbs such as horsetail into a tincture or tea, the concentrated solution may provide very little absorbable silicon. This is because once the concentration of orthosilicic acid is more than 10 to 100 parts per million in water, the acid's conversion to silica can be prevented only if the solution is chemically stabilized. Thus, to avoid conversion to the substantially less bioavailable silica, large quantities of weak tea might be better than a concentrated extract.

Although a clinical silicon deficiency has not yet been demonstrated in humans, there appear to be situations in which intake and absorption are inadequate. Osteoporosis may be one of them. In a 1993 study conducted by researchers at Centre Hospitalier de Toulon in France, eight women with osteoporosis whose average age was 64 were injected twice weekly for four months with 50 mg of absorbable silicon. According to images taken before and after supplementing, this modest intake significantly increased the density of their thigh bones but did not affect the density of vertebral bone.7 The thigh bone is the largest bone in the body and bears the most weight, so it is an excellent indicator of osteoporosis.

Most animal products except for cartilage, skin and tendons are low in silicon, whereas high-fiber foods such as whole grains, fruits and vegetables are the richest sources of silicon. The refining process, however, removes up to 99 percent of the silicon content in grain (see sidebar above), so supplementing with stabilized orthosilicic acid may be a good alternative.

On the whole, this information strengthens the argument that humans' nutritional requirements are based on paleolithic diets. Both osteoporosis and cardiovascular disease are nutritional diseases of modern Western societies--there is little evidence of hunter-gatherer societies having suffered from either.

Sooooo.....does that mean I need to eat cartilage and tendons? Hm.....I think I might actually prefer whole grains to that.... :P
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 06:50:50 AM by marika »

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #154 on: August 13, 2009, 08:11:13 AM »
Sooooo.....does that mean I need to eat cartilage and tendons? Hm.....I think I might actually prefer whole grains to that.... :P
Gelatin works too, as it has the same amino acid content as cartilage.  When you make stock, part of what you're doing is turning tendons into gelatin.

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #155 on: August 13, 2009, 11:42:03 AM »
Does gelatin contain silicon? I do have homemade bone broth all the time.

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #156 on: August 13, 2009, 04:56:09 PM »
Apparently bone broth does have silicon (no references though):

http://dogappetit.com/minerals.htm
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Silicon
Recent research shows that silicon stimulates the formation of collagen, a protein that gives bones their strength and flexiblity, joint cartilage its cushioning ability. Silicon also protects against toxic aluminum. Grains with shiny surfaces such as millet, flax, and corn are good sources of silicon. Bone broth with chicken or calve's feet are good sources of silicon.

Here's a book which also states bone broth has silicon:
http://books.google.com/books?id=udhEFetbJ-gC&pg=PA98&lpg=PA98&dq=bone+broth+silicon&source=bl&ots=5mNnbB6fD8&sig=WPPsxCWJvrKKnXHzGMamcW7NVPw&hl=en&ei=oaeESrTLGeCZjAeM2fy5Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=18#v=onepage&q=bone%20broth%20silicon&f=false
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Bone broth (or soup stock) is full of bioavailable calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, silicon, sulfur and trace minerals.

Here's a site with references:
http://www.townsendletter.com/FebMarch2005/broth0205.htm
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Basically then, broth will contain the ingredients that are in bone. Covering and adhering to the ends of bones to form a joint, is cartilage. Therefore broth will also contain the ingredients that are in cartilage. Bone and cartilage are both classified as connective tissue. Connective tissue is one of the four basic tissue types that exist in animals. It functions to bind or hold together and to support and strengthen the body. Connective tissue consists of a matrix, and cells that secrete the matrix. The matrix is the material that fills the space between the cells and is therefore referred to as the extracellular matrix. It is composed of protein fibers, and ground substance, which can be a liquid, a gel or a solid. Since the cells are few, it is the valuable nutrients from the matrixes of bone and cartilage, which create the substance called broth.

[Marika: bone broth contains gelatin as well]
Chinese studies have shown gelatin to increase red blood cell and hemoglobin count, increase serum calcium level, increase the absorption and utilization of calcium, and prevent and treat myotonia atrophica (muscle wasting).29

So perhaps bone broth is really an excellent and important part of the Paleo diet in terms of bone strength!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 05:11:56 PM by marika »

Offline paleo bushman

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #157 on: August 13, 2009, 09:07:07 PM »
Mythical daily diet, minimum 119% every vitamin, over 120% every mineral except sodium 98%, 1677 calories, 1553 calcium mg.

Carrots, raw   2   large (7-1/4" to 8-/1/2" long)   59.0
Celery, raw   2   stalk, medium (7-1/2" - 8" long)   12.8
Kale, raw   1   cup, chopped   33.5
Lettuce, iceberg (includes crisphead types), raw   0.5   head, medium (6" dia)   37.7
Fish, pike, walleye, cooked, dry heat   2   fillet   295.1
Egg, whole, raw, fresh   3   large   214.5
Fish, sardine, Atlantic, canned in oil, drained solids with bone   1   can (3.75 oz)   191.4
Oranges, raw, California, valencias   8   fruit (2-5/8" dia)   474.3
Blackberries, raw   1   cup   61.9
Strawberries, raw   1   cup, whole   46.1
Broccoli, raw   1   cup chopped   30.9
Seeds, sunflower seed kernels, dried   0.2   cup   163.5
Mollusks, oyster, eastern, wild, raw   1   6 medium   57.1


My cheat sheet,

mg CA per calorie

lean grassfed beef 0.08
flank steak 0.15
top sirloin 0.04
hamburger 5% fat, 0.07
chuck steak 0.04
veal lean, 0.10
pork loin 0.09
pork chops 0.14

chicken breast 0.07
turkey breast  0.10
game hen 0.05

chicken eggs 0.34
goose eggs 0.32

rabbit meat 0.10
goat meat  0.12

beef liver 0.03
beef tongue 0.02
caribou marrow 0.00

bass, freshwater mixed 0.70
snapper 0.31
northern pike 0.62
wild channel catfish 0.11
cod 0.13
rockfish 0.10
sunfish 0.90
wild trout 0.57
walleye 1.18
sardines w/bone 1.83

crayfish 0.73
shrimp, mixed 0.39
crab 0.61
lobster 0.62
clams 0.62

broccoli  1.38
string green beans 1.20
carrot 0.81
celery  2.50
cucumber 1.17
kale 2.70
lettuce, iceberg 1.28

Apples 0.11
Apricots 0.27
Watermelon 0.23
Oranges 0.88
Lemons 0.89
Blackberries 0.68
Bananas 0.06
Pomegranate 0.12
Nectarines 0.26
Strawberries 0.50
Prickly Pear  1.36
Pineapple 0.26
Grapes 0.14
Plums 0.13

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #158 on: August 19, 2009, 05:29:16 AM »
Paleo Bushman, that menu looks pretty good. I'm not a raw oyster fan, but the rest of it looks tasty! However, being inland, it's hard for me to get seafood.

Hey, I just thought of something today....

Did Paleo man possibly get most of his Calcium from eating insects????
http://www.essortment.com/all/entomophagyeati_rnkm.htm
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While insects are high in protein and relatively low in fat, they are also a "clean" food source because many feed-off of fresh plants. Additionally, they are not scavengers, as is the more commonly eaten shellfish. Insects are also easy to raise, and to harvest, and they are highly nutritious to eat. For example, a termite contains approximately 14 grams of protein and 36mg of iron. In comparison, lean beef contains 27 grams of protein and only 4mg of iron. Additionally, if you are looking to add calcium to your diet, try eating crickets. One cricket contains 13 grams of protein, 10mg of iron, and 76mg of calcium. Overall, insects provide a good source of nutrients and when prepared properly, can be quite tasty as well.

Well, I've got tons of crickets that like to sneak into my bathroom. I could EAT them, I guess, and get my Calcium that way..... :P

More on eating insects:

http://www.manataka.org/page160.html
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Many species of insects are lower in fat, higher in protein, and have a better feed to meat ratio than beef, lamb, pork, or chicken.

Insects are tasty. Really! Even if you are too squeamish to have them as a main dish, you can make insect flour and add it to bread and other dishes for an added protein boost.

Insects are easy to raise. There is no manure forking. No hay bale lifting. No veterinary bills. You can raise them in an apartment without getting complaints.

Most people do not mind butchering insects. The butchery of insects is very simple compared with that of cattle or poultry, and nowhere near as gory.

Raising insects is environmentally friendly. They require minimal space per pound of protein produced, have a better feed to meat ratio than any other animal you can raise, and are very low on the food chain. They are healthy, tasty, and have been utilized for the entire history of mankind (after all, it is easier to catch a grub than a mammoth).


« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 03:15:40 PM by marika »

Offline paleo bushman

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #159 on: August 19, 2009, 02:16:04 PM »
I think they probably ate a lot of insects, frogs, salamanders, minnows, clams, snails, caterpillars, small game, and maybe reptiles.  Unfortunately I am really squeamish about eating bugs.  Some have toxins. 

http://www.ent.iastate.edu/Misc/insectnutrition.html
http://www.academicjournals.org/AJB/PDF/pdf2006/2Feb/Banjo%20et%20al.pdf

100 grams of cricket contains: 121 calories, 12.9 grams of protein, 5.5 g. of fat, 5.1 g. of carbohydrates, 75.8 mg. calcium, 185.3 mg. of phosphorous, 9.5 mg. of iron, 0.36 mg. of thiamin, 1.09 mg. of riboflavin, and 3.10 mg. of niacin.

If this is correct,

0.62 mgs of calcium per calorie.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 02:20:39 PM by paleo bushman »

Offline Rollin

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #160 on: August 20, 2009, 01:25:07 AM »
Crickets look like they breed like rabbits :o

Paleo man eating insects, probably.. food for thought

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5rdmkEUR_4
Stamp out weakness!!!

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #161 on: August 21, 2009, 05:42:56 AM »
Yes, they do breed like rabbits...I know because they've taken over my bathroom!!  >:(

I don't know if I could ever eat a cricket...bleah....

I did want to post this about the importance of K2 in preventing osteoporosis:

http://www.paleonu.com/
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For osteoporosis treatment, trials in Japan suggest K2 supplementation is highly efficacious, with one trial showing 80% reduction in hip fractures with K2 supplementation. This is much more impressive than the rather modest improvements in fracture risk reported so far with Vitamin D supplementation, but to be fair, the doses used with D have been very small, in the 400 -800 iu/day range. More on doses later. Calcium supplements seem to be the least helpful for osteoporosis, which makes sense when you understand that absorption from the gut can be very poor without D and very high with adequate D levels. It is not logical that we should need calcium as a supplement at all as long as D3 and K2 are at Paleolithic levels and you are not binding up dietary calcium with phytates in cereal grains.

Vitamin D, grain avoidance and eating grass-fed butter and hard cheeses (for the K2) are my strong recommendations for avoiding osteoporosis. I doubt if bisphosphonate drugs work better, and there is no way they are safer than butter.

Here are some approaches to Vitamin D replacement I think are reasonable:
If you can get adequate sunlight at midday, say, sitting outside at lunchtime with 25% of your skin exposed for an hour, and your latitude and the season allow enough UV, you can use that as your source.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 05:47:58 AM by marika »

Offline Rollin

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #162 on: August 22, 2009, 02:38:28 AM »
Yes, they do breed like rabbits...I know because they've taken over my bathroom!!  >:(

I don't know if I could ever eat a cricket...bleah....
Dig in, nah i wouldn't eat them only to reach an RDI.

Personally would certainly be disappointed if not adventurous enough too try them or similar overseas though..!  Something i may or may not investigate further. ;D

Stamp out weakness!!!

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #163 on: August 22, 2009, 04:27:54 AM »
Vitamin K2 is present in grass fed beef as well:

http://www.healthy-eating-politics.com/grass-fed-beef.html

Since it's fat soluble - which is why it's in the butter - it'll be present in the fats.  You may be getting plenty already from your grass fed tallow.

I've read that it only takes a few seconds of midday sun exposure in light skinned people to get to saturation levels - which are extremely high - in skin.  I suspect a few minutes of midday sun on the hands and face may be sufficient.

marika

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #164 on: August 22, 2009, 06:16:01 AM »
This site shows the amounts of K2 in various foods, although meat does have it, it appears that cheeses are higher in the MK-7 type:

http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2008/11/21/how-vitamins-a-d-e-and-k-interact-part-3-where-to-find-them/
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Vitamin K
The two main sources of vitamin K2 in the diet are MK-4 and MK-7. There are other forms of this vitamin, like MK-8, 9, and 10, but the two predominant forms are the -4 and -7 forms.

MK-4 Sources (mcg/100g)

    * Egg Yolk (Netherlands) - 32.1 (Egg White contains 0.4)
    * Goose Leg - 31.0
    * Egg Yolk (United States) - 15.5
    * Butter - 15.0
    * Chicken Liver - 14.1
    * Chicken Leg - 8.5
    * Ground Beef (Medium Fat) - 8.1
    * Calf Liver - 5.0
    * Milk - (Whole: 1.0, 2%: 0.5, Skim: 0.0)
    * Salmon - 0.5

MK-7 Sources (mcg/100g)

    * Natto - 1103.4 (0% MK-4)
    * Hard Cheeses - 76.3 (6% MK-4)
    * Soft Cheeses - 56.5 (6.5% MK-4)
    * Curd Cheeses - 24.8 (1.6% MK-4)
    * Sauerkraut - 4.8

Plenty of vegetable foods are high in vitamin K1, such as avocados, spinach, chard, and the cruiferous vegetables. Remember that MK-7 is produced by bacterial fermentation, hence why the foods in that list are all fermented foods. MK-4 is produced directly in animal tissues. But there isn’t much K2 in fish.

Notably absent from the main text body is a discussion of where the K2 is coming from. It’s tucked away in one sentence of the methods section: “cheese contributed 54%, milk products 22% and meat 15% of menaquinone intake.” Oops! These are the foods that are supposed to cause heart disease! And do you remember where the K2 is? In the fat– double oops! Yet another important nutrient that’s found in animal fat.

I actually wasn't ever able to get the grassfed tallow, I've just been using pastured pork lard. Since hogs aren't ruminant animals, I don't believe that the lard will have K2. The grassfed beef that I've been getting has some, but I think that the grassfed cheeses I've been eating recently have a lot more. I wonder if that's one reason I've stopped having the muscle cramping and my skin has gotten softer? Maybe I'm getting more K2 (the MK-7 variety) now, and perhaps I was a bit deficient in that before?

Here's some more interesting info on K2:

http://www.vitamink2.org/
Quote
Vitamin K has been known as the coagulation vitamin, because of its role in the blood-clotting process. However, research over the last few decades has shown that the role of K Vitamins – and natural Vitamin K2, the menaquinones, in particular – has been greatly expanded. Of note, K Vitamins activity outside the liver is required for calcium utilization, the key factor in maintaining both bone and cardiovascular health.

Vitamin K2 helps to activate vitamin K-dependent proteins responsible for healthy tissues. In bone, it activates osteocalcin, a protein required to bind calcium to the mineral matrix, thus strengthening the skeleton. In circulation, Vitamin K2 participates in carboxylation of Matrix Gla Protein (MGP), the most potent inhibitor of arterial calcification known, lowering the risk of vascular damage.

As the scope of research expands other new functions, crucial to our wellbeing, are now emerging. The latest studies have not only confirmed Vitamin K2’s positive function towards osteoporosis and cardiovascular diseases, but also revealed new and exciting applications, including the activity of vitamin K and Alzheimer's disease, a variety of cancers, the incidence and severity of varicose veins, skin aging and others.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 06:22:28 AM by marika »

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Re: Calcium
« Reply #164 on: August 22, 2009, 06:16:01 AM »