Author Topic: ladyweights for beginners?  (Read 16991 times)

Offline Wlfdg

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Re: ladyweights for beginners?
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2011, 12:28:04 PM »
Yes.  The pilates and voga are only 45 minute sessions and not particularly taxing, so easy to do on the same day as vibe, sprints or zumba.  Or before weights!
You don't want to do that. Your CNS will be sluggish and your resistance training will be less than productive. In fact they would work great after any of the above activities, certainly not prior.

FWIW - NOBODY is gaining any, appreciable amount of muscle mass without being in a state of caloric excess. ESPECIALLY a female!

IMPO - Dancers are the epitome of grotesquely, unhealthy skinnyfatness.

Offline ARod

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Re: ladyweights for beginners?
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2011, 10:02:53 PM »
NOBODY is gaining any, appreciable amount of muscle mass without being in a state of caloric excess. ESPECIALLY a female!

I agree, and for that reason why not do a more traditional workout regimen? One that is ordinarily intended for muscle gain when on a calorie deficit won't gain you any muscle but should help you retain more muscle while losing weight than would a strength program like the 5x5.


Offline Warren Dew

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Re: ladyweights for beginners?
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2011, 11:15:58 PM »
thanks Warren.  I agree with the first point but not with the second!  I'm 118 lbs at 5'1'' - ideally for coxing I'd like to get down to 106 lbs but I think that is unrealistic and probably not healthy for me.  So, the goal is 24.5" waist - a 1" loss.

Heh.  I think you'd have to lose a lot of muscle as well as fat to get to 106 pounds; it would definitely be unhealthy.

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The chocolate I eat has 1g of sugar per square.  I eat one square at breakfast and another at lunch.  I think it is not so much the sugar as the extra 100 calories!  I have given up nuts though.  They are far too easy to snack on!  Perhaps I will have my berries only on the days I do tabata :(

I think that without the sugar, the 100 kcal of fat in the chocolate would go mostly or entirely into circulation, helping keep your energy level up.  The effect of the sugar and the associated insulin isn't just to store the 1g of sugar, but to take along with it fat calories.  The sugar is used to form the glycerol caps of the triglycerides in the fat cells, but the lipids in the triglycerides are pulled out of circulation from the bloodstream.

With respect to the berries, if you don't want to get rid of them, my suggestion would be to have them shortly after your most strenuous exercise for the day - either tabata or weightlifting - with no other food.  At that point the glycogen stores in the muscles should be depleted, so the insulin peak should primarily drive the sugar into the muscles to replenish the glycogen, and not so much into fat cells to facilitate fat storage.

As for dancers' physiques:



I really don't see much fat on Mr. Baryshnikov there.  Grotesque and unhealthy maybe.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 11:19:07 PM by Warren Dew »

Offline Mister Misanthrope

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Re: ladyweights for beginners?
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2011, 11:30:01 PM »
Generally speaking, you can assume women have about equal lower body strength and half the upper body strength of a man of comparable weight.

Take whatever starting recommendations you can find for men and divide them by two for upper body work. If that's too easy, add weight. If it's too hard, drop it down.

Offline el cogollero

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Re: ladyweights for beginners?
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2011, 03:10:12 AM »
wlfdg and Warren - could you explain a bit more about why you see (male) dancers' bodies as grotesque and unhealthy?


Offline C C G

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Re: ladyweights for beginners?
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2011, 05:48:32 AM »
Yes.  The pilates and voga are only 45 minute sessions and not particularly taxing, so easy to do on the same day as vibe, sprints or zumba.  Or before weights!
You don't want to do that. Your CNS will be sluggish and your resistance training will be less than productive. In fact they would work great after any of the above activities, certainly not prior.

FWIW - NOBODY is gaining any, appreciable amount of muscle mass without being in a state of caloric excess. ESPECIALLY a female!

So always do yoga/pilates after any other activity?

I did weights yesterday - couldn't find any instructors to help me with free weights so did leg press (machine), squats with dumbells, chest press with dumbells and pulldown (machine), in 'ascending sets' - 15, add weight, 10, add weight, 4.  Don't feel stiff today at all so obviously not nearly enough weight!  The final squats I did were 33lbs - never done squats before so wasn't sure how much weight to lift!

Anyway, no chocolate for me today :(  Only cocoa!

Offline sparrow

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Re: ladyweights for beginners?
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2011, 06:57:52 AM »
Anyway, no chocolate for me today :(  Only cocoa!

I've been avoiding dark chocolate bars because even the tiny bit of sugar starts me craving more.  Cocoa powder mixed with ghee or coconut oil, shaped into a roughly bar shape on some wax paper, then tossed in the fridge for a bit works pretty well for me - still has some of the texture of a bar, but no sugar. 

Offline Wlfdg

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Re: ladyweights for beginners?
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2011, 07:07:41 AM »
As for dancers' physiques:



I really don't see much fat on Mr. Baryshnikov there.  Grotesque and unhealthy maybe.
I think he has a great physique. Celticcavegirl would look awesome that kind of physique. Any woman would!

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: ladyweights for beginners?
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2011, 08:03:12 AM »
wlfdg and Warren - could you explain a bit more about why you see (male) dancers' bodies as grotesque and unhealthy?

I don't, really, but I accept the fact that "grotesque" is an aesthetic judgement that differs from person to person.  For example, I find many nonnatural bodybuilding physiques to be grotesque, but obviously some people like them, since there are competitions for them.

I will say that in ballet specifically, ballet corps often do have male dancers who are considerably less healthy and less athletic than the women, simply because getting into a ballet corps is far less competitive for men than for women.  Baryshnikov is not one of those, however, nor was he just a member of the corps.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 09:39:35 AM by Warren Dew »

Offline C C G

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Re: ladyweights for beginners?
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2011, 08:25:24 AM »
hmmm...I think I am more suited to belly dancing than ballet dancing!

In terms of what I'm aiming for though, I don't want to be skinny, or muscular.  Just in shape and womanly!  Like the models in the 90s.  Although today's Victorias Secret models are held up to have 'the perfect female body' they are far skinnier than I ever want to be.

Warren, I agree with you about bodybuilders...I think though it's the tans and the shiny hairlessness that really weirds me out!
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 06:33:30 PM by C C G »

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: ladyweights for beginners?
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2011, 11:29:31 AM »
hmmm...I think I am more suited to belly dancing than ballet dancing!

How about latin?



Seriously, I suspect your waist is already smaller than on the Victoria's secret models.  Measuring pixels on photographs, those models are at waist to hip ratios of 91/136=0.66 and 86/125=0.69, while your photo at 114 pounds is at 102.8/157.2=0.65.

One thing Baryshnikov, Gaynor Fairweather MBE, and the Victoria's Secret models all have in common is more leg development than arm development.  Given you're looking for something in that range, the squats with dumbbells are probably good, as would be regular squats and deadlifts when you have a spotter.  Given what you are looking for I would stay away from upper body exercises like chest presses and pulldowns, which burn off a lot less glycogen anyway due to working smaller muscles.

Offline Rollin

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Re: ladyweights for beginners?
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2011, 01:53:11 AM »
I train with female competitive powerlifters & they look nothing like Krista Schaus... in fact most started out training with kettlebells for fat loss & are very conscious about body image & bulkiness.

Offline samjohn

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Re: ladyweights for beginners?
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2011, 06:37:32 AM »
It is sad how many women are afraid of getting bulky, considering how hard that is to achieve. I have to destroy myself in the gym and eat HUGE amounts to get that way, and I have truckloads of testosterone helping me out.

The women who come into the weights room always have better bodies than the treadmill crew, and I hate muscles on women. Well upper body muscles at least. I reckon the absolute ultimate workout plan for a girl would be tabata thrusters 3x a week, and 2 days in the weights room just doing squats and weighted hip thrusts.

Offline C C G

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Re: ladyweights for beginners?
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2011, 10:12:36 AM »
tabata thrusters 3x a week

are you trying to kill me?!?!   ;D

I think I'm going to do 1x tabata on the bike, and 1x tabata thrusters per week, for now  ;)  (plus 2x weights and yoga/pilates)

Going to try the thrusters tomorrow and then I will most likely be cursing your name for the next 2 days...

Offline Warren Dew

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Re: ladyweights for beginners?
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2011, 07:38:53 PM »
It is sad how many women are afraid of getting bulky, considering how hard that is to achieve. I have to destroy myself in the gym and eat HUGE amounts to get that way, and I have truckloads of testosterone helping me out.

Again, it's a matter of perception.  One person's 'bulky' is another person's 'skinny' or 'skinny fat'.  I'll illustrate another way by using roman statuary; Terpsichore, muse of music and dance, on the left, and Artemis, goddess of the hunt, on the right:



I've seen women go from an upper arm like the picture on the left to one like the picture on the right just from a year or so of driving a car without power steering, no weight lifting required.  That's certainly not bulky by weightlifting standards, but if you really want the picture on the left, it's a noticeable change.  Gains come much faster at the start if you've never really used the muscle before.

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The women who come into the weights room always have better bodies than the treadmill crew, and I hate muscles on women. Well upper body muscles at least. I reckon the absolute ultimate workout plan for a girl would be tabata thrusters 3x a week, and 2 days in the weights room just doing squats and weighted hip thrusts.

I'm guessing you are okay with more of an Artemis style build.  I am too, but it's not what some women are looking for.  That said, some kind of tabata and your squats and hip thrusts would work either way.