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Messages - Warren Dew

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Diet and nutrition / Re: Meat in a low-carbon world
« on: July 27, 2008, 07:28:58 AM »
Why?  Itís an enormously expensive way to produce food, because it takes a calorie of fossil fuel energy to produce a calorie of food!  This has increased pollution as well as altering the planetís composition of species and shrunk its biodiversity.  Whatís going to happen to cheap corn when fossil fuel energy is no longer so cheap and available?

That's a good summary of the green revolution in your post.  I'd only note that while artificial nitrogen fixing was invented in the early 1900s, it wasn't until the middle of the century that it really transformed agriculture in the U.S.

It's "enormously expensive" in terms of the energy balance, but in terms of dollars, it's actually enormously cheap - as long as the fossil fuels hold out.  That's why the developed nations have enough spare food to give it away for free to the starving nations in the first place.

Once the fossil fuel runs out, we aren't going to be producing enough food to go around anyway, even if we all subsist on a diet of pure cornmeal.  Changing our diets just isn't going to help.  What we should be doing instead is replacing direct food aid - which drives their local food producers out of business - with aid designed to help them establish sustainable local sources of food.  Then they can eat what they want and can produce, and we can eat what we want and can produce.

Diet and nutrition / Re: Where do you get your calories?
« on: July 26, 2008, 09:50:14 PM »
Another good option is to save bone scraps in the freezer until you get enough of them and then use them to make a long-simmered bone broth.  The Weston A Price Foundation claims that a cup of homemade bone broth has as much calcium as a cup of milk.  Dark leafy greens and sesame seeds both also have calcium.

Good point about the broth.  If nothing else, I can go back to rendering the turkey carcass at Thanksgiving and maybe add some vinegar to help with calcium extraction.

Greens are a traditional source of calcium, but it takes what seems to me like a tremendous volume of them to get the U.S. RDA - though as you point out, that much calcium might not actually be necessary.  Sesame seeds are why I eat the bread sticks, but I should probably just find them separately.

All the major paleo authors use olive oil since it's one of the only oils you can get that is regularly cold-pressed from a paleo food.  It is one of only 2 plant oils that I use personally (the other being coconut oil).

I should check my grocery store for coconut oil.  Is it suitable for pan frying?  One issue with olive oil is that the smoke point seems kind of low for frying, which I do a lot of.

Would cold pressing make soy oil paleo?

I eat the best quality meat that my time and budget will allow.  This does not always meet the grassfed standard.  However, I feel that the benefits of eating meat outweigh the risks of eating non-grassfed meat.  If it really bothers you, you can try to choose leaner cuts since chemicals get stored in fat tissue.

I agree with you here.  Grass fed beef doesn't actually have a lower dioxin content in the fat; its main known advantage is in having an omega 6 to omega 3 ratio that's only about 2:1.  Factory farmed beef is about 4:1, which is still substantially better than vegetable oils, especially corn oil at 20:1.  That's even ignoring the advantages animal fats have in more specific fatty acid makeup.

Anyway, I managed to substitute fruit and unsalted nuts for the grain based snacks for a few days, and things seemed to be working better.  Unfortunately 10g of shortbread last night and half a bun of bread today seems to have put me back to where I was.  I'm not sure my wife is ready for complete removal of grains from her diet yet.

Diet and nutrition / Re: Question about snacking
« on: July 26, 2008, 04:56:05 PM »
My paleo snacks are fruit and nuts.

Exercises / Re: New to the Paleolithic Diet and have questions..
« on: July 26, 2008, 03:59:53 PM »
i am into muscle building, as well i do lots of cardio, mostly HIIT. is the paleolithic diet good for muscle building? every muscle building diet ive heard about require lots of carbs.

If what you want to do is just increase muscle mass, the most important thing in your diet is probably protein.  Paleo would be fine for that since it allows unlimited meat.  For cardio, some carbohydrates is good, and paleo permits that too.

If you're specifically looking for extreme muscle definition, though, I think you may need to limit fat while building muscle?  Paleo may not be the best diet for that, since animal protein generally comes with a certain amount of fat.

Diet and nutrition / Re: Where do you get your calories?
« on: July 22, 2008, 08:32:53 PM »
Thanks, everyone, for the information and suggestions!  I'd welcome any more.

Regarding the juice, I would prefer to replace the orange juice with whole fruit, but at present calcium enriched orange juice is my main source of calcium.  I'm trying to add more sardines as snacks, which would make the orange juice unnecessary.  I do want to keep some acidic fruit in my diet, as otherwise I get gallstones, and the home cure for that is painful.

Dairy is not an option, as I lack the neolithic adult lactase mutation needed to digest the stuff.

Nuts are a good idea.  Nuts do tend to cause me to chain feed just like refined carbohydrates do, but maybe unsalted nuts will help with that?

Snacks?  Not lunch?  Anyway, I would replace the breadsticks with a green salad topped with other raw veggies and an olive oil based dressing or something else fatty like nuts or avocado.

I generally prefer snacking thoughout the day to fixed meals - except in so far as meals are an opportunity to eat things that take more preparation than a snack justifies.  A salad is a good idea.  I'm not sure about the olive oil, though; why do we think olive oil is paleo?

Eat a larger portion of meat.  Replace the potato with a cooked vegetable prepared in a paleo-friendly fat.

More meat is a possibility, though organic meat is expensive.  Frying mushrooms and vegetables in the fat that melts off the meat during cooking is a good idea.  Yeah, I know, that fat isn't exactly the same as that from wild aurochs, but the internal belly fat that wild ungulates have a lot of doesn't seem to be sold anywhere; I wouldn't even know what to ask for.

Here's the thing, though:  after a meal devoid of carbohydrates, I'll feel full, but I'll still have an urge to find some non-sweet carbs to eat.  If I ignore that urge, I'll often get a headache; perhaps my brain doesn't deal with ketosis well.  I guess I'm not trying to reduce the carbs so much as trying to find paleolithic carbs.  Are there carbohydrate rich root vegetables that are acceptably paleo?

Diet and nutrition / Re: Grease
« on: July 20, 2008, 02:33:12 PM »
What are your thoughts on the health benefits/detriments of grease/lard?

I think that the currently popular stance against animal fat is based on dated information.  Here's how I see it:

Back in the '80s, there were studies that correlated heart disease with fat consumption.  Increased heart disease was correlated first with high fat consumption.  When people then tried to get a handle on whether certain kinds of fats were better or worse than others, it was found that in diets with equal amounts of fat, diets high in saturated fats were worse than diets that had more unsaturated fats.

Those studies, however, did not differentiate between animal fats and vegetable fats, and didn't differentiate between artificially hydrogenated fats and unhydrogenated fats.  It was simply assumed - without proof - that animal fats were worse than vegetable fats, simply because they have a higher saturated fat content.

Starting around 2000, some studies were done that made more detailed distinctions between different kinds of fats.  What these studies found was the following:

- worst were artificially hydrogenated vegetable oils like vegetable shortening (old style Crisco) and margarine
- unhydrogenated animal fats and vegetable oils were about the same
- fish oil was healthiest

Now, this was slightly puzzling from the point of view of saturated fat content, because animal fats had as much saturated fat as artificially hydrogenated fats.  Scientists then started looking for why the artificially hydrogenated fats seemed so much worse.

After a few more years of studies, they figured out why:  by far the worst fats are the "trans" fats, which are found only in trace amounts in nature, but which are created in large quantities in the hydrogenation process.  Since the purpose of hydrogenation is to increase the saturated fat content, significant amounts of trans fats are only found in conjunction with saturated fats. Animal fats got an undeserved bad name only by association with hydrogenated vegetable oils.

Note that these studies are based on modern animal fat composition and consumption patterns.  Fat from wild paleolithic animals was probably even healthier - perhaps comparable to modern fish oil, which mostly still comes from wild fish.  Farmed fish only became common recently, but there are already indications that it doesn't have the health benefits that wild fish does.

From a practical standpoint, there are still a couple of issues.  First, dioxins, which don't affect heart disease but do promote cancers, are ubiquitous in the modern environment and concentrate in animal fat.  There's actually slightly more of it in free range animals and eggs than in factory farmed animals and eggs, because it's picked up from dirt.  Of course, there was some dioxin in paleolithic times too - from forest fires and grass fires - but probably less than now.  Depending on just how bad the dioxin issue is, it might be a reason to avoid modern animal fats of all kinds.

The other practical issue is that it's practically impossible to find unhydrogenated lard, which would be the obvious choice for an animal based cooking oil.  It's for that reason that I still use soy oil for cooking - though I try to limit the amounts.  If I ever find organic lard, I'll switch.

Diet and nutrition / Re: Eggs:how many and what kind do you eat?
« on: July 20, 2008, 12:30:28 PM »
If you care about omega 6 : omega 3 fat ratio, there's a big difference between regular eggs on the one hand, and organic or omega 3 eggs on the other.  Regular eggs are around 20:1 based on what I can find on the web, while omega 3 eggs are much closer to 1:1.

I've switched to omega 3 eggs, and have 1-2 a day, but I'm not really on the paleo diet yet.

Diet and nutrition / Where do you get your calories?
« on: July 20, 2008, 12:24:54 PM »
I'm not on a paleo diet at the moment, primarily because I still eat bread and potatos.  I'm considering moving entirely to paleo for the possible long term health benefits.  I don't need to reduce my weight, so I don't need to reduce my calories.  I'm trying to figure out what I would replace the starch with.

Here's a typical day for me:

breakfast:  2 egg omelette with a little onion and 1/4 tomato, 6 oz orange juice

daytime snacks:  1/2 banana, sesame breadsticks with butter (maybe 300 kcal worth), 1/2 can sardines

dinner:  3 oz organic beef, 1/2 potato, small salad with no dressing (1/2 tomato is the only thing with much in the way of calories)

evening snacks:  1 oz popcorn or other grain based snack popped in soy oil, orange

It looks to me like about half my calories are from grain and potato starch.  What should I replace it with?  Where do you get your nonmeat calories?

Introductions / Introduction
« on: July 20, 2008, 12:04:43 PM »
The forum says to introduce ourselves, so here I am.

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